[fishski13]

Quote:

I think its "legendary" amping requirements are blown out of proportion; very akin to broscience on bodybuilding forums.
 
Why does it need so much voltage given its low impedance?  Also, voltage and current are intimately related via resistance.  Providing a good amount of either through an amp will translate to power.
 
 

in the case of MOSFET amps, i think the K702 do sound much better with a higher current bias which inherently equals more power.  do they need they need a lot of power to attain adequate volume without clipping - no.  
 

 

[grokit]

When I tried the K701 out of my portable Arrow amp on the highest gain setting they clipped during complex passages at higher volumes, the same as my HE-5 at the time. The reason I'm guessing that they need voltage gain more than current though is because they sounded pretty decent out of my Indeed v2 which is a high gain amp without much current. The HE-5 which definitely thrives on current was a fail out of that one.

 

[fishski13]

Quote:

When I tried the K701 out of my portable Arrow amp on the highest gain setting they clipped during complex passages at higher volumes, the same as my HE-5 at the time. The reason I'm guessing that they need voltage gain more than current though is because they sounded pretty decent out of my Indeed v2 which is a high gain amp without much current. The HE-5 which definitely thrives on current was a fail out of that one.

93dB sensitivity is a bit low.  yes, you do need some voltage, especially with older digital masterings to avoid clipping, and HPs are largely voltage dependent devices.  my comment on current was purely based on subjective impressions and biasing.  MOSFETs also have measurably more linear transfer characteristics with a higher quiescent current bias.
 

 

[Saintly]

Quote:

93dB sensitivity is a bit low.  yes, you do need some voltage, especially with older digital masterings to avoid clipping, and HPs are largely voltage dependent devices.  my comment on current was purely based on subjective impressions and biasing.  MOSFETs also have measurably more linear transfer characteristics with a higher quiescent current bias.
 

 
While we have a pro here, given the high sensitivity of the 600 ohm Beyerdynamic T1, would a low-voltage hybrid like the SOHA II do an appropriate job of driving them?
 
Also, I'm having trouble wrapping my mind around the difference between providing a headphone with large voltage or high current.  They're related by I=V/R and power can be written as an expression of either current or voltage so wouldn't providing an adequate amount of either one do a sufficient job of driving headphones?
 
 

 

[fishski13]

Quote:

 
While we have a pro here, given the high sensitivity of the 600 ohm Beyerdynamic T1, would a low-voltage hybrid like the SOHA II do an appropriate job of driving them?
 
Also, I'm having trouble wrapping my mind around the difference between providing a headphone with large voltage or high current.  They're related by I=V/R and power can be written as an expression of either current or voltage so wouldn't providing an adequate amount of either one do a sufficient job of driving headphones?
 
 

 
basically, sources put out signals that have V but very little current.  for purposes of signal amplification, you need to have enough V swing to avoid clipping and achieve a desired volume and enough current to deal with the impedance of the transducer.  so yes, as long as these requirements are met with a little headroom (110dB), it should be sufficient.  depending on the output devices and how they're biased, you can have differing ratios of V to I that define Power in Watts.  2 different amps that are each capable of 2W may have different V swings and current delivery.  2 identical output devices can sound differently depending on they're biased as well.  
 
i don't know what the speced V swing of the SOHA II is in it's different configurations off the top of my head.  as long as it has the V swing and the gain adjusted to achieve the necessary V, the 600ohm Beyers require very little current.
 
 
 
 

 

[Saintly]

Quote:

 
basically, sources put out signals that have V but very little current.  for purposes of signal amplification, you need to have enough V swing to avoid clipping and achieve a desired volume and enough current to deal with the impedance of the transducer.  so yes, as long as these requirements are met with a little headroom (110dB), it should be sufficient.  depending on the output devices and how they're biased, you can have differing ratios of V to I that define Power in Watts.  2 different amps that are each capable of 2W may have different V swings and current delivery.  2 identical output devices can sound differently depending on they're biased as well.  
 
i don't know what the speced V swing of the SOHA II is in it's different configurations off the top of my head.  as long as it has the V swing and the gain adjusted to achieve the necessary V, the 600ohm Beyers require very little current.
 
 
 
 

That's a lot of information to digest for me, haha.  Thanks for taking the time to reply.
 
I just sealed the deal on a SOHA II.  Hopefully it can handle the 2.25V output of the Music Streamer II and not clip like the Fiio E9. 
 

 

[Argo Duck]

Thanks for this reply fiskski13
 
If I understand you correctly, output devices with high power but biased for low voltage swing - implying high current capability - would only put that power into a headphone if that headphone has low enough impedance to take advantage of this amp's high current capability. Is this correct?
 
If so, I imagine headphones that 'need' e.g. 2 W but have low enough impedance to suit the amp described above would be fairly unusual? In fact, we would be tending toward speaker-like impedances (16 ohms or less)?
 
TIA
Quote:

basically, sources put out signals that have V but very little current.  for purposes of signal amplification, you need to have enough V swing to avoid clipping and achieve a desired volume and enough current to deal with the impedance of the transducer.  so yes, as long as these requirements are met with a little headroom (110dB), it should be sufficient.  depending on the output devices and how they're biased, you can have differing ratios of V to I that define Power in Watts.  2 different amps that are each capable of 2W may have different V swings and current delivery.  2 identical output devices can sound differently depending on they're biased as well.  <snip>

 

 

[Maxvla]

You think the T1 is overrated but really like the T5p at about the same price level?  Talk about the subjectivity of this hobby...

If you took the time to look at my impressions of the T5p, you'll notice that I qualify that by saying they are one of the best closed headphones I've ever heard. Compared to open headphones they are nothing special. At the same price though, I would probably still take the T5p over the T1s. I was never impressed with the T1s or even approaching it.

 

[googleli]

I also have the T5P but it has been collecting dust for some time now... I will sell it once my Thunderpants arrived and confirmed it is really what I like. That said I would say it is overpriced and no overrated. Not sure I saw a lot of reviews of the T5P anyways, especially when you compare with LCD2.
 
LCD2 is IMO a better headphone, but the way it was commended makes it way more overrated than the T5P.

 

[fishski13]

 
Quote:

Thanks for this reply fiskski13
 
If I understand you correctly, output devices with high power but biased for low voltage swing - implying high current capability - would only put that power into a headphone if that headphone has low enough impedance to take advantage of this amp's high current capability. Is this correct?
 
If so, I imagine headphones that 'need' e.g. 2 W but have low enough impedance to suit the amp described above would be fairly unusual? In fact, we would be tending toward speaker-like impedances (16 ohms or less)?
 
TIA
 

i don't want to open a can of worms and de-rail this thread with my wishy-washy ramblings on power and gain.  objective metrics like power aren't the only consideration in evaluating gears.  feel free to PM me and check out this thread that has some great links: http://www.head-fi.org/t/581062/beginners-guide-to-amp-specs .      

 
 

 

[vdub]

Going back to the beginning of the thread.... I have to defend Bel Canto some. I own both the S300iu and DAC 2.5 and couldn't be happier. Of course its not the most uber-perfect rig that everyone thinks that theirs is, but it works for me. The S300iu runs a pair of paradigm studio 60s and love it personally.

 

[kiteki]

 
T5p is currently my favorite headphone ever.
 
The T1 sounded pretty good, and I really liked the K1000 too.
 
 
In terms of technology, then the LCD-2 is overrated (in price / popularity), if you can buy a $75 Fostex T50RP and mod it to sound close.
 
For the dynamic driver Tesla flux technology, you have to pay $1000, or $2000 even (TH900).
 
 
Naturally I have only listened briefly to all these high-end headphones, without experimenting with DAC/Amp, unlike googleli.
 

 

[Argo Duck]

Thanks fishski - will check out that thread in a day or so and PM you if I'm still confused after that. Appreciate that you took the time to respond 

Quote:

 
i don't want to open a can of worms and de-rail this thread with my wishy-washy ramblings on power and gain.  objective metrics like power aren't the only consideration in evaluating gears.  feel free to PM me and check out this thread that has some great links: http://www.head-fi.org/t/581062/beginners-guide-to-amp-specs .      

 

 

[Loevhagen]

That's a big if.
 
Quote:

In terms of technology, then the LCD-2 is overrated (in price / popularity), if you can buy a $75 Fostex T50RP and mod it to sound close.

 

 

[kiteki]

Well I see you have the LCD-2, T50RP and HE-500, and you have a blog about them, so I will leave that to you then.   I wish there was a company like Hifiman in Scandinavia.