Solid or Stranded Hookup Wire?

[blip]

Dang! 30 AWG is tiny!

While we are still on the topic of thin wire... What is everyone's favorite interconnect configuration for cables stripped from CAT 5e? I'm arguing between doing a litz braid or leaving them in their default arrangement... But any other idea would be great. (Though I'm really tempted to do the tape interconnects instead...)

 

[philodox]

I'm building a tube amp shortly and originally I was going to pick up some kimber cable hookup wire from parts connexion, but I see that it is stranded and after reading this thread that worries me. I think I will probably see what my local radio shack/the source has to offer in way of small gauge solid copper cabling. What about for the PSU section? Should I go with a larger gauge there?

 

[rickcr42]

Quote:

What about for the PSU section? Should I go with a larger gauge there?

I use both solid and stranded in the power supply and reserve the "solid conductor or nothing" fetish for signal path wiring.Foe power supplies you need to watch the current rating with solid state and the voltage rating for HV Vacuum Tube designs which are universally low current designs unless they use parallel multiple tube output stages then both current and voltage have equal importance.

If you read the article here note Thorsten uses "wire with high voltage sleeving" for the power supply connections and a heavy solid copper ground buss wire yet the input signal wire is a hair thin solid copper type

http://www.enjoythemusic.com/magazin...1/builders.htm


If you want to "dabble" in solid conductor magnet wire for the signal path check this out :

http://www.radioshack.com/product/in...entPage=search

Use the 22 guage with a teflon sleeve for power lashups and the 26 for signal.The 30 is just way too hard to deal with mostly and even a break is hard to see oftem (kinda like checking a 1/4 watt fast-blow fuse)

 

[Frenchman]

I have a mixed position on this. While I am a firm firm believer in the measurement side of the equation, I give a nod to the non-measurement/sounds crowd in that the ear is an extremely sensitive detector. I'm just finishing up my formal course in microwave circuit design, and this has taught me a good firm lesson is in "the little things" can seriously affect a design. At low frequencies, these effects arn't nearly as prominant, but when you are dealing with the ear it's a different monster. When someone says something measures the same but sounds different, I don't treat that person like they believe in Harry Potter and all his magic, but that we don't have instruments that can accuratly measure such differences.

All that said, construction techniques can make a huge difference. We are dealing with AC so even at low frequencies, there is some effect from the type of wire used and exactly what materials are inside and how the wire was built. It's the same way with expensive capacitors. We arn't talking about some universal "capacitor making method" that you read in a book and everyone uses. Those capacitors are expensive not just because demand is low, but because they contain better materials and/or procedures for constructing them that are more difficult. At high frequencies, this can lead to capacitors self resonating at frequencies several GHz apart, and I have no reason not to expect that smaller effects will be visible even at a few KHz.

So basically, when Rick says he hears a difference, he isn't saying that in solid core wire he hears Mozart and in standed he hears crap, he is saying there is a noticable difference but it is VERY small. Humans have long discovered how easy it is to make a circuit that plays back music. Now we're in the really small features of the music and figuring out how we want to represent them.

Personally, I use a big spool of excess telephone wire. It's solid and 28ish gauge. It's convienient. Magnet wire... is not

If I were like Rick and seriously concerned with it and I could hear a difference, I'd probably do it.

There is no magic. There is only science. But just because science can't explain something right now doesn't mean it is magic

edit

Not saying Rick actually uses the 30 gauge, but he is far more concerned with sonics then me.

 

[mono]

IMO, one really has to try multiple types of wire in same placement before they can be sure their personal preference matches someone else's, if/when they do hear a difference. If one person really likes very thin wire it may not mean another would prefer it in same situation. Same goes for solid vs stranded.

 

[philodox]

Quote:

Originally Posted by rickcr42 Use the 22 guage with a teflon sleeve for power lashups and the 26 for signal.

Thanks a bunch Rick... it is a PTP tube amp, so hopefully I can do most of the 'wiring' with the components leads, but I will try to get some of this wire from Radio Shack and I think it is basically what aerius uses anyways, so he can probably pick some up for me.

 

[rickcr42]

Quote:

IMO, one really has to try multiple types of wire in same placement before they can be sure their personal preference matches someone else's,

anyone unwilling to experiment or have at least a minimum of experience should avoid telling other people what they do not hear.Headfi has far too many "I feel" people posting and not enough "I know because" folks posting.


I don't mind experts,only self proclaimed experts always telling other they are crazy or jumping into threads just to stir things up.

 

[rickcr42]

Quote:

So basically, when Rick says he hears a difference, he isn't saying that in solid core wire he hears Mozart and in standed he hears crap, he is saying there is a noticable difference but it is VERY small. Humans have long discovered how easy it is to make a circuit that plays back music. Now we're in the really small features of the music and figuring out how we want to represent them.

Absolutely ! I and most others who make claims of hearing differences between certain apssive parts are mostly always talking about that last bit of detail or leading edge-decay of the microdynamics and not the general "sound" overall which in reality,most all amps sound alike anyway.
the only thing that separates a great amp from a good one is the extra low level detail you can dig out in a musically pleasing way.

Quote:

Personally, I use a big spool of excess telephone wire. It's solid and 28ish gauge. It's convienient. Magnet wire... is not If I were like Rick and seriously concerned with it and I could hear a difference, I'd probably do it.

actually pretty good wire and a close cousin to the "intercom" wire I have used and still use at times with the intercom wire being 24 guage,my upper limit for signal wiring

Quote:

There is no magic. There is only science. But just because science can't explain something right now doesn't mean it is magic

some well known audio engineer in the 50's said it best :

"If it measures good but sounds bad you are probably measuring the wrong thing"

While test equipment commonly available is fine for looking for blatant errors or a ciruits misbehaving not the final answer to a good sounding design. I am convinced from years of listening and comparing we have at our disposal the best "free" test equipment for doing the fine tuning and that is the human ear which for whatever reason is and always has been more accurate on certain things than any yet devised test gear.

Quote:

Not saying Rick actually uses the 30 gauge, but he is far more concerned with sonics then me.

Could be rabbit.I never was one to follow trends and need to be hit over the head sometimes to "get it" but once i do it will take more than another shot to the head to change my mnd even though others may not agree.

Audio is totally cool in that you can find ten people ask them the same question and they will all give you a different answer yet be totally right in the context of their own system !

Where I depart from that is when closed minds speak the loudest,and they always do rather than not post at all,on a subject they have no idea about and spout "this is how it is" just to do it and stir things up.
This 99% of the time leads to argument and taking sides which in the end destroys any hope of conversation when the thread ends up being locked-as many like it when they do not agree with a thing.

cheers

gotta go..............................

 

[aerius]

Quote:

Originally Posted by philodox Thanks a bunch Rick... it is a PTP tube amp, so hopefully I can do most of the 'wiring' with the components leads, but I will try to get some of this wire from Radio Shack and I think it is basically what aerius uses anyways, so he can probably pick some up for me.

Yeah, it's what I prefer to use if possible. Stripping off the enamel gets a bit fun though unless you have a mini butane torch and a bit of sandpaper. Fun as in "why the #@$& isn't it $#^@@$# coming off??!!"

I've recently switched to using Cat6 network cable because it's a lot easier to strip and it's also colour-coded so I don't connect things wrong and blow stuff up. Cat6 is either 23 or 24ga solid copper, it should say on the outside somewhere. I use 24 for signal and 23 for power.

 

[philodox]

Quote:

Originally Posted by aerius I've recently switched to using Cat6 network cable because it's a lot easier to strip and it's also colour-coded so I don't connect things wrong and blow stuff up. Cat6 is either 23 or 24ga solid copper, it should say on the outside somewhere. I use 24 for signal and 23 for power.

Ahhh... that sounds much more simple. Any good hookups on good places for buying spools of it or do you just cannibalize cables?

 

[adhoc]

Quote:

Originally Posted by aerius I use 24 for signal and 23 for power.

I use 16awg for power, 21 for heater and 22 for signal. am i missing something here?

fwiw, to get the enamel off a thin wire, i get my hottest iron, leave a 'blob' of molten solder at the end, and 'draw' the wire through it. not only does it get rid of the enamel, the wire also gets tinned. but this method kills iron tips like... umm... something that kills iron tips quickly i guess.

 

[Porksoda]

I gotta be honest, the more DIY I do, the more skeptical I get about minute differences like this. Personally, I know for a fact that I cannot hear these kinds of differences. As for the resident golden ears around here, I'll believe the difference when I see one of them pass a double-blind test.

 

[aerius]

Quote:

Originally Posted by philodox Ahhh... that sounds much more simple. Any good hookups on good places for buying spools of it or do you just cannibalize cables?

I just go to the surplus store every now & then and get them to cut me a 10-20' length off their 1000' spools of Cat6.

Quote:

Originally Posted by adhoc I use 16awg for power, 21 for heater and 22 for signal. am i missing something here?

I don't think so...I use what I use because it's cheap and convenient, and it happens to sound pretty good too. Nothing magical about the sizes I'm using.

Quote:

fwiw, to get the enamel off a thin wire, i get my hottest iron, leave a 'blob' of molten solder at the end, and 'draw' the wire through it. not only does it get rid of the enamel, the wire also gets tinned. but this method kills iron tips like... umm... something that kills iron tips quickly i guess.

That works too, but I save it for the really small impossible stuff like Sennheiser headphone cables that I'm splicing. With bigger stuff it's more fun to take a mini-torch to it and then sand off the blackened residue. Fire! Fire! Fire!

 

[rickcr42]

Quote:

Yeah, it's what I prefer to use if possible. Stripping off the enamel gets a bit fun though unless you have a mini butane torch and a bit of sandpaper. Fun as in "why the #@$& isn't it $#^@@$# coming off??!!"

BIC lighter for the initial strip and the hot iron/solder for the finals

.

 

[nikongod]

foir whatever its worth i wired my millet, and re-wired my k-340's electret section with 30ga silver plated coper.

the k-340 had 20ga magnet wire there before. i like this sound better. the millet was just made that way.

i think that a BIG part of using the 30ga wire is NOT scratching/denting the wire when you strip it. having nicked the wire it broke while i was soldering. the ones that look shiny (no dent from strippers) hold up well for me.