[CaseJ]

Hey guys,
Well after some posts quite awhile ago I picked up an acoustic guitar and having been playing for some time now. I play a lot of electric songs on my acoustic and think now I should probably by an electric! The reason in the past I didn't want one was that I hate when the tone sounds harsh like slayer if that makes any sense, I went to guitar center and the startocaster was the only thing I kind of liked. Better yet im looking for a electric new or used ~$500 that sounds like the following songs:
Carlos Santana-Black Magic Woman, Bella, Europa, Samba Pi Ti

Please understand that I'm a complete newb to guitars and terminology I just enjoy playing. I realize there might be many other factors to why I thought everything sounded like a death metal guitar before im just looking for something that sounds like the songs above. Any input would be great! Thanks

 

[intoflatlines]

Carlos Santana used to play Gibson SGs but now he uses a PRS custom. It'll be hard to match the sound exactly. It's not just the guitar that makes it, it depends heavily on what amp you use.

 

[CaseJ]

It doesn't have to be exact, thats just the road I want to go down. Is there something that I should be looking for? I will never play outside of my house.

 

[intoflatlines]

Personally, I would get a MIM Strat or Tele and use the extra money to put some new pickups in it. It should sound pretty good.

My electric guitar is a seven year old (I think?) MIM Fender Stratocaster. I upgraded the tuners and bridge pickup, and messed with the tremelo to make it kind of like a hardtail. I think it sounds great.

 

[Cool_Torpedo]

My advice is that you go visit a local guitar shop and play on some different guitars. It's not only the sound, which you can "tweak" depending on the amp and pedal effects you might get, but also the playability, how comfortable is the fretboard width and length, how much strength you need to push on the strings to sound clean... many many factors that would make you really happy or just having a guitar that you won't play at all.

In spit of all that, I think Fenders are quite nice to play and sound good. Gibsons are tougher. I like their bodyful sound better, but you need some extra skill to make them sound nice.

Rgrds.

 

[intoflatlines]

Yeah, Gibsons are much heavier and I'm not a big fan of their bridge system. Make sure you learn how to set up your guitar to maximize playability and such, or have it set up when you buy it. I have played some nice guitars that were set up wrong and it makes it sound like crap and hard to play, while I have played some really cheap guitars that were set up correctly and they are very easy to play and sound decent. There are so many things you can do to a guitar to make it sound different, and since you're a member on Head-Fi, I am sure that you are particularly vulnerable to upgradeitis. That being said, I would spend ~$300 on a Fender Strat/Tele and then tweak the sound by experimenting with pickups, pedals, etc.

 

[nor_spoon]

You should also get a good tube amp. Thats the only thing that works with guitar tones, except faster metal and things IMO.
If you are just going to play at home, there could be a good idea to get a small wattage amp (less expensive), because tubes sounds best and gets out their harmonics when being pushed hard. Even 5 Watts would be more than enough.

Anyway, what you hear of distortion on the older Santana records, are the tubes on his Mesa being pushed so they distort. He has been playing PRS guitars for a long time, but I think they are way overpriced, and out of your budget anyways.

I have a Mesa/Boogie Dual Rectifier Trem-O-Verb 100W, and though I have removed half of the tubes and put the power swithces down so its about 30W I just can't play louder than 9-10 on the dial, and that just barely opens the amp up... Tubes need to be pushed!

For guitars, you'll ned one with pickups that are less hot and don't have a lot of output. Santana plays a lot using his humbucker in neck position, to get that creamy flute sound, although on Samba Pa Ti I think he uses bridge pickup, or between.

If I were you, I would definetely look after a used guitar. You will get better quality for your money, and you won't loose little, or anything at all when selling.

I would also look at the Peavey JSX Mini Colossal amp. Doesn't cost too much, and could be perfect for practicing.

Check out the link below. Everything in the song is recorded using this little amp. YouTube - Joe Satriani Mini Colossal Song

Its 5-0 Watts, so you can crank the tubes without blowing yourself or your neighbour up. It has a bit more modern sound than the older Mesas, but it also depends on pickups used in the guitar, and of course other things like teqhnique.

And last but not least, most of the sound is in the fingers. Only Santana sounds like Santana.

OMG, he asked for a guitar, and almost all I have written about is tube amps

 

[dcstep]

The styles he wants to play will sound better on a LP-style or PRS. He needs humbuckers, not single coils. If he prefers a Strat then that's fine, but he shouldn't expect it to sound like Santana. It just doesn't work that way.

Since he'll be in his house only, I agree with the idea of a low powered tube amp, but something like a 15 watt champ. A Mesa will blow his budget. He can always move up later as his tastes develop.

As a semi-pro trumpeter that plays in funk/rock/soul bands with pro guitarists, tubes are a royal pain in the butt on gigs. ALL the players that I know use modelling for gigs and tubes are reserved for the studio. Working guitarists needs to do Santana/SRV/Harrison sounds all on the same gig and can't switch amps and guitars for every song. A modelling amp really fills the bill. BTW, I play guitar also, but in jazz bands. I use Class D SS amplification with custom cabs and a multi-effects pedal. The OP is still a year or two away from all that.

Dave

 

[intoflatlines]

I agree that to get the Santana sound, you would have to go with a Gibson or PRS, something with the humbuckers. You said you liked the Strat the most, so that's why I suggested you stay with that. I mean, sure, you can go and buy exactly the same gear that your favorite artist uses but if you don't enjoy how it feels/plays then it would just be a waste of money.

For indoor stuff, if you want to go tube then do it, but tubes aren't all that reliable and can be expensive to repair and are typically more expensive in the first place, even for a smaller amp. A lot of smaller solid state amps that I have heard can do some pretty impressive amp modeling. Maybe check out one of those Boss multi-effect pedals, they have tons of options for different amps and effects and I bet that you'll be able to find a sound that you like out of there.

 

[srozzman]

For an amp, i would recomend an Epiphone Valve Jr. It is a small tube amp for around $100, looks kinda retro, and sounds sweet. I also have a MIM strat, and they make a great match imho.

 

[Jon118]

Honestly, the best advice I've found for looking at new guitars is go to a store and find one you like, completely disregard price for this part. Once you've found one you like, if it's in your price range then good, get it. If not get all the details about it you can and try to find something that closely matches it that is in your price range, once you have a list of some like it, then go try those out until you find one you like.

Personally I was looking for something similar to a PRS Custom 22 when I got mine, the closest two in the $400 range where my price ceiling was were the Schecter Gryphon and the Yamaha RGX-520 FZ. I ended up getting the Yamaha since it was the 22 that I would prefer and the Gryphon was a 24-fret, otherwise those two were pretty close. But since your price ceiling goes up to $500, you can afford a PRS SE, so you might want to give those a look.

Really though you can get a lot of sounds out of most guitars if you're running the right amp and effects, I would be more concerned with what you like as far as actually playing goes over anything. Whatever guitar you like to play is probably going to be the best way to go. I can vouch for liking the feel of Strats, I definitely enjoy playing my dad's Strat, but I wasn't a fan of its tone. There are a lot of things to consider.

 

[grawk]

Honestly, at this point, buy a guitar on feel. Guitar sound is in the fingers more than anything else. Learn to play, then get gear.

 

[nor_spoon]

Quote:

Originally Posted by grawk /img/forum/go_quote.gif Honestly, at this point, buy a guitar on feel. Guitar sound is in the fingers more than anything else. Learn to play, then get gear.

Agree..

And when you have the money, buy a Suhr guitar and never look back.

 

[GlendaleViper]

There is no substitute for actually playing a guitar and - especially in the case of an electric, trying out different amps. The variance in solid-body guitar tones between single makes (ie: Strat to Strat, Les Paul to Les Paul) is very, very slim compared to acoustics or hollow bodies, mostly determined by the neck/fretboard and the pickups. Choose the guitar you most enjoy playing (knowing that alterations can be made later) and sink some cash into a combo amp/cabinet you really enjoy. Remember - in audio, tubes and solid state is preference but in guitar amplification, tubes are almost universally accepted as "mandatory gear".

 

[3DCadman]

CaseJ

Hey fellow Michigander!

Since you're in the Mitten State, ever hear of Elderly Instruments? They're in Lansing. It's an AWESOME place to shop for a guitar.

They have a huge mix of used and some new guitars of all kinds.

I got a 72 Fender Jazz bass there about 15 years ago and they charge pretty fair prices.

They let you play anything you want, and have amps everywhere. I believe most of the staff are in a band of some sort too, so they are a good source of information.

Check em out if you're in that area. Have fun!