It's ironic that you began the conversation by attempting to dissuade people from posting sound quality comparisons in an attempt to sway the conversation to only the specific type of information YOU'RE interested in..and then followed it up by suggesting that not everyone is on this forum for the same reasons I am. There's a word for that, it's called hypocrisy. Don't expect people to adhere to standards that you yourself don't follow. Pretty simple
If you you'd like to be productive as well, instead asking people to limit their misguided sound quality impressions but do share their thoughts freely as long as it complies with forum guidelines (why thank you, oh great and merciful one), you could just make your way to ASR where Amir has already posted extensive measurements along with impressions and save us all from your need to control the conversation into a format you find suitable. If all you care about is technical specs, features and functions...then congratulations. All that information is readily available and a google search away. No need to search or ask further. You're welcome.
Hi everyone, I'm new here
Thanks KPzypher for starting this thread!
I got my SMSL M400 yesterday. I thought my unit had a error since my remote control where not working and I could not find it as a Bluetooth device. Today I learned I have to push the C button before the remote control start working and the FN button to activate the Bluetooth . Did you have the same experience or did the remote control and the Bluetooth work right out of the box?
I installed the latest drivers and updated the 2.06 USB firmware, so the Versions are:
HW ver: 1.5
SW ver: 1.2
USB ver: 2.06
When the unit is accepting flashing of the USB firmware, the unit should be genuine, right? Is it anywhere you can check if a SMSL product is Genuine?
Surprised there's no dedicated thread for the M400 DAC.
I have the D90 (MQA) for my desktop setup, and I like it so much I wanted something similar for my main rig. Thought about getting another D90 but figured i'd try something different with similar specs/function/measurements/price. Seems like M400 is a perfect match.
So I just ordered one of these.
Where are all the owners of M400?
Care to share some thoughts? Not opposed but don't really care much for sound impressions. I think it's silly the way some folks describe DACs as if they're describing HPs. I want to know more about features/functions/build quality, what users like/dislike, or any glaring software/hardware/design issues that can hamper performance.
It's ironic that you began the conversation by attempting to dissuade people from posting sound quality comparisons in an attempt to sway the conversation to only the specific type of information YOU'RE interested in..and then followed it up by suggesting that not everyone is on this forum for the same reasons I am. There's a word for that, it's called hypocrisy. Don't expect people to adhere to standards that you yourself don't follow. Pretty simple
If you you'd like to be productive as well, instead asking people to limit their misguided sound quality impressions but do share their thoughts freely as long as it complies with forum guidelines (why thank you, oh great and merciful one), you could just make your way to ASR where Amir has already posted extensive measurements along with impressions and save us all from your need to control the conversation into a format you find suitable. If all you care about is technical specs, features and functions...then congratulations. All that information is readily available and a google search away. No need to search or ask further. You're welcome.
First of all, I started the thread after I had ordered the equipment and was awaiting shipment. So what possible information would I be interested in that I cannot test or find out myself???? Pretty simple huh? Talk about selective reading.
On the other hand, what are you here for? Your obviously not interested in the product.
At least I own the equipment and provided some feedback. What have you done to contribute to this thread???? other than trolling.
Yup, I didn't think so.
If you're so naive to be dissuaded by what others post on here, I don't know what to tell you buddy. Go make a friend if you can instead of wasting your time here.
I'm done. I'll let you close it out so you can move on and go be a productive member of head-fi lol.
why is this such a bad thread? It doesn't help anyone this way. And it certainly isn't a credit to the product. Isn't sound quality all anyone cares about at this price level? So why this thread? To boast?
BTW, I made my choice. It's not a chip solution. So it is not the M400.
why is this such a bad thread? It doesn't help anyone this way. And it certainly isn't a credit to the product. Isn't sound quality all anyone cares about at this price level? So why this thread? To boast?
BTW, I made my choice. It's not a chip solution. So it is not the M400.
What's the purpose of DACs? Is it not to convert the stream of digital data accurately? Sure, many things can influence the sound. Power supply modulation, filters, buffer section, chip implementation, impedance which can affect pairing, etc. etc. Yeah I'm all about talking about things that can influence sound. But if you're just describing DACs like you're describing sound characteristics of HPs e.g. "oh the soundstage and imaging is so nice.....," I think that's misleading. That's what I meant, regarding sound impressions of DACs. I want to know the actual user experience, e.g. 'higher than usual output voltage on fixed volume/DAC mode caused some clipping with the amp i'm using, etc etc.' Lots of reviews throw out words to describe DAC sound that is completely meaningless. My intent was to cut through the unwarranted hype and misinformation, not to limit sound impressions. I do want to know the performance of the DAC. Sound impressions without proper context and explanation I think does nothing but create confusion. Tell me why you think R2R sounds better than well implemented D/S, other than 'it sounds better or the usual manufacturer marketing BS.' It's the same notion.
**With that being said, please feel free to share your sound impressions. I've made an edit to the OP to alleviate any misunderstanding.
with that being said, did you come back just to say you've made a decision to purchase something other than the M400?? I don't understand how that helps anyone, since you were so inclined to point out that my message doesn't help anyone in anyway?
ok, that clarifies a little. I still think specs is something anyone can look up.
I just found this tread disappointing to read since I think it's a neat product and I was genuinely interested in buying it. From research I found that it might be an upgrade to for my Moonshadow 9038q2m dac that I really like plus it has all the up to date bells and whistles. The only thing i needed to really be sure of was; how does it compare soundwise to the 9038 and R2R in general. The 9038 can be a little strident, overly (artificialy) detailed, very wide and deep soundstage, it has BT and native DSD that ups the ante. My Teradak r2r rather the contrary and it can't decode DSD (but in general the better more natural dac).
I also had to look into MQA. It does improve sound and it is said it compensates for the type of dac. But it's still a niche extra (/gimmick) that is of no use with redbook and everything i have. And I'm not yet attrackted by Tidal etc. It's better to get redbook right than waste money on a license fee for something incidental (a few highlights). I agree, so is DSD, but i do have some DSD (some of my fav music) and no MQA. And; DSD sounds decidedly better than PCM, that includes MQA. I tested and discarded. So i decided against MQA.
What I also put much emphasis on is input and output stage. All delta sigma dacs are designed with the same building blocks and the output stage is always an active I/V, usually opamps. I have one dac with tubes, while very pleasant sounding, is never really dead quiet. My R2R dacs all have a passive output stage that does not effect sound quality. For input I would really prefer an FPGA. About a year ago I stumbled upon the Holo audio spring as a discrete built R2R dreamboat. But it's really expensive and out of my reach (fortunately, in hindsight). And then entered Denafrips Ares II.
So the basic choice became: do I go for minimal done right or lavish that will always leave the question open; "is this all?". I have almost never gone wrong choosing the former and always regretted the latter. I learned that rather quick so I do not go there unless it's a rational financial decision. The price of the Ares II being the same as the M400 (io the $2500 pricetag of the Holo and my legs still working fine) i decided I don't need BT and remote control.
So now I am listening to the basic Denafrips R2R. And waiting for the M400 review on 6-Moons (the Ares II review is up) to finally end the 'what if'.
For the future I see a modification (not gonna happen for M400)... After i did my amp, finished my speakers, turntable etc.
PS: I forgot to answer the basic 'why': pre-ringing. I choose R2R because I had an epiphany years ago while attending a small classical concert in our town gothic 12th century church. What i heard was the real thing and i could NOT hear the position of every instrument or singer. But everything was in its right place and i did hear everything there was to hear. Especially ambiance and decay. When I came home i realised the cheap R2R dac i was working on was much closer to this sound than my ultimate modified tubed d/s dac I have. D/S seems more detailed, but it's artificial. Like a spotlight on strippers with glitter.
When you go into detail my non-oversampling unfiltered R2R is far from perfect or clean if you look at the graphs, but it has no pre-ringing. Something utterly un-natural. Heralds of sound to come. Ripples in the water before the stone hits. The HF noise is inaudible with music (contrary to full 0dB test frequencies). While D/S is still getting better the effect remains.
Hey Beautiful people and ears, I have got schiit modius and was thinking about upgrading it. (that's itch) Currently i have hooked it up with my KEF LSX and Schiit Asgard 3. I love the smoothness and clarity of modius. I don't have much expeirnece with other dacs. I am wondering how does these dacs sound like in comparison. I am not an anaylitical listener. I want to enjoy music (which i know is vague and relative)
Hey Beautiful people and ears, I have got schiit modius and was thinking about upgrading it. (that's itch) Currently i have hooked it up with my KEF LSX and Schiit Asgard 3. I love the smoothness and clarity of modius. I don't have much expeirnece with other dacs. I am wondering how does these dacs sound like in comparison. I am not an anaylitical listener. I want to enjoy music (which i know is vague and relative)
Not a big Schiit fan and the only Schiit DAC I own is Modi 3. But if you love your Modius like you said, than I advise you keep it. You'll likely be disappointed if you think you'll get an earth shattering upgrade/improvement. Invest in a good pair of HPs instead. That's just me, so take it with a grain of salt.
Not a big Schiit fan and the only Schiit DAC I own is Modi 3. But if you love your Modius like you said, than I advise you keep it. You'll likely be disappointed if you think you'll get an earth shattering upgrade/improvement. Invest in a good pair of HPs instead. That's just me, so take it with a grain of salt.
I tried it with hamalyn salt. Taste ok thanks for your advise. I am also leaning towards the same conclusion. Btw i have got hd660s. Wanted to get lil warm sounding headphones any recommendations?
my advice would be the same. A dac matters, but at your level a $700 dac won't make nearly as much an improvement as better speakers or a subwoofer. If you spend that money on a really good (hifi not home cinema) used sub you'll be amazed what that does. Especially with those small speakers. You can even buy a pair of headphones for that money. My last bought headphone cost me a grand total of €45 (MSUR N350) and is nearly the best i ever bought Takstar planar should be the best but i love that little wood-enclosed 50mm beryllium driver.
While dacs do make a difference you don't need to spend a lot of money for an upgrade. But you do need a really good system to discern differences between dacs. Only when you've got that covered you should start thinking about dacs.
So, just anecdotal: I've been to shows with systems a 100k pricetag (McIntosh Focal (good) and Naim Kef Blades (yich)), and mine sounds better. With a dac I bought for €45 euros. Ok, I did modify it, a NOS non filtered R2R dac. And my system (new) is almost half of that. So price does not mean much. If you know what to get, where to buy and at what price. I just upgraded to a Denafrips Ares from a Teradak R2R, (€180 to €700) and while there is a difference, it's not earth shattering. I say this to help you get a different perspective on prices.
I built a pair of small monitors like the LSX (only better if not a point source which is not the be all and end all, like the blades which sound like talking through cupped hands), great imaging, great detail, speed, air, but they lack warmth. Ie, 2 bottom octaves which is important for the sense of space, venue. I made them to be paired with a subwoofer and that gives it warmth. Makes the sound complete.
my advice would be the same. A dac matters, but at your level a $700 dac won't make nearly as much an improvement as better speakers or a subwoofer. If you spend that money on a really good (hifi not home cinema) used sub you'll be amazed what that does. Especially with those small speakers. You can even buy a pair of headphones for that money. My last bought headphone cost me a grand total of €45 (MSUR N350) and is nearly the best i ever bought Takstar planar should be the best but i love that little wood-enclosed 50mm beryllium driver.
While dacs do make a difference you don't need to spend a lot of money for an upgrade. But you do need a really good system to discern differences between dacs. Only when you've got that covered you should start thinking about dacs.
So, just anecdotal: I've been to shows with systems a 100k pricetag (McIntosh Focal (good) and Naim Kef Blades (yich)), and mine sounds better. With a dac I bought for €45 euros. Ok, I did modify it, a NOS non filtered R2R dac. And my system (new) is almost half of that. So price does not mean much. If you know what to get, where to buy and at what price. I just upgraded to a Denafrips Ares from a Teradak R2R, (€180 to €700) and while there is a difference, it's not earth shattering. I say this to help you get a different perspective on prices.
I built a pair of small monitors like the LSX (only better if not a point source which is not the be all and end all, like the blades which sound like talking through cupped hands), great imaging, great detail, speed, air, but they lack warmth. Ie, 2 bottom octaves which is important for the sense of space, venue. I made them to be paired with a subwoofer and that gives it warmth. Makes the sound complete.
Thanks for your valuable suggestion. I already got a kube 12 sub n it does make a huge difference. I think it is easy to get carried away. You are right.
@smsl mandy Is it possible to display the Hi-res badge when sending true 24-bit data to the M400? I'm using Audirvana to play back tracks, and the hi-res badge is only triggered by the sampling frequency, not the bit depth. It would be great if the M400 could detect 24-bit data and show the hi-res badge. Loving my M400!
@smsl mandy Is it possible to display the Hi-res badge when sending true 24-bit data to the M400? I'm using Audirvana to play back tracks, and the hi-res badge is only triggered by the sampling frequency, not the bit depth. It would be great if the M400 could detect 24-bit data and show the hi-res badge. Loving my M400!
Maybe because 24bit is just not high resolution? Maybe there is more room to store data, but there usually is no information present in the music to store. I can instantly hear improvement in sample frequency from 44>96 but never could detect any improvement from 16>24bit. I consider calling 24/48 'high res' pure marketing and I resample it to 16bit to save space. 24/48 takes up the same room as 16/96. 24bit makes sense in studio mastering or when you use digital volume while cranking your amplifier up to 0dB. Not when you are listening at room levels where 16bit provides plenty of dynamic range.
@smsl mandy Is it possible to display the Hi-res badge when sending true 24-bit data to the M400? I'm using Audirvana to play back tracks, and the hi-res badge is only triggered by the sampling frequency, not the bit depth. It would be great if the M400 could detect 24-bit data and show the hi-res badge. Loving my M400!
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