[rmsanger]

Thoughts on sound quality? I'm concerned with the lack of output buffer with them chasing measurement queen stats of min THD. Some of the other Topping/SMSL/THX options measure well but sound thing, brights, harsh, simbalant... Does this follow their path?

 

[KPzypher]

Thoughts on sound quality? I'm concerned with the lack of output buffer with them chasing measurement queen stats of min THD. Some of the other Topping/SMSL/THX options measure well but sound thing, brights, harsh, simbalant... Does this follow their path?

The way I understood was there shouldn't be any problems due to higher voltage output? Haven't had a chance to test out the balanced side, but no issues on SE out. With regard to sound quality, its comparable to D90 MQA. And it's not harsh or sibilant, at least not on my current chain (Roon>M400>Focal Arche). I can definitely tell it's an improvement over the 4490x2 in dual mono setup on the Arche. Overall, quite pleased. Now I'm just waiting to pair the M400 with the upcoming SP400. Should be comparable to Topping's D/A 90 stack with similar features and measurements. For me, as far as D/S DACs go, M400/D90(MQA) is at the top, and no real gain or reason to look beyond that.

 

[KPzypher]

@smsl mandy , any update on SP400?

What happen to JUN release date you mentioned on other forums?

 

[KPzypher]

I just can't get over how cool the M400 runs even after a long session. It puts out zero heat which is night and day compared to the D90, that gets quite warm after a short use. Heat is a big distracting factor for me. When you have bunch of class A amps, DACs, laptop, PC, and other electronics all crammed into one space, it gets quite hot and unbearable. Heat is an important factor I started paying attention to when purchasing audio components.

 

[HF060720]

`

 

[KPzypher]

Hi everyone, I'm new here
Thanks KPzypher for starting this thread!
I got my SMSL M400 yesterday. I thought my unit had a error since my remote control where not working and I could not find it as a Bluetooth device. Today I learned I have to push the C button before the remote control start working and the B button to activate the Bluetooth . Did you have the same experience or did the remote control and the Bluetooth work right out of the box?
I installed the latest drivers and updated the 2.06 USB firmware, so the Versions are:
HW ver: 1.5
SW ver: 1.2
USB ver: 2.06
When the unit is accepting flashing of the USB firmware, the unit should be genuine, right? Is it anywhere you can check if a SMSL product is Genuine?

Yes you have to press C on the remote to get it going. Not sure why that is but it's also stated in the manual.

Not sure I'm following you regarding unit being genuine. If it displays 2.06, you should be g2g.

What amp are you running with?

Enjoy the DAC.

 

[HF060720]

`

 

[iFi audio]

Before that I used a iFi micro iDSD Black Label.

If I may ask, were you happy with it ?

 

[HF060720]

If I may ask, were you happy with it ?

`

 

[iFi audio]

I love the power of my iFi micro iDSD Black Label. Like the balanced outputs on my iFi Zen Dac, my HiFiMan 4xx got lifted by the balanced output on my iFi Zen Dac.
Had a "Amazon loaner" in 2019, a Pro-Ject Pre Box S2 Digital. The Pro-Ject Pre Box S2 Digital's full unfolding of MQA is something I missing on iFi micro iDSD Black Label and iFi Zen Dac.
I paid around 650USD for the iFi micro iDSD Black Label when I got that and about 655USD for my new SMSL M400, so I could not turn down that offer.

A part of this hobby is to change things around and upgrade, so I hear you. Our Pro iDSD is a full MQA decoder, but it's a more expensive product. If we'll have tech to do MQA decoding in more affordable products, we'll make some! Thanks for sharing and enjoy your SMSL

 

[MLGrado]

Itooks great and probably sounds great to. I was actually considering it, but what matters for me is the sound. Yes, there is a difference in soundquality. Now I don't want to step on anyone's toes, but that matters a lot more when played over speakers than it does over headphones. Frankly, I have trouble hearing differences over headphones because I can't tell the soundstage. With my planar I prefer my NOS R2R DAC over my delta sigma because of the absence of artificial detail. It's just a little bit more natural and subdued

This! While I haven't really thought about it much in my head-fi rig, back about 8 years ago I had my home theater rig running off the older Integra Research RDC-7 and was using active Martin Logan electrostats for stereo listening. The Integra was an incredible piece for 2-channel. Although it was a surround processor, the left and right channels had different DAC's that the center/surrounds. The were the venerable Burr Brown R2R 1704 chips in dual differential config, and it had one of the best jitter busting clocking systems at the time made by Apogee. It was truly a world class 2 channel preamp.

Well, I got the 'bug' to change to something that had the new lossless codecs for surround (True HD etc) so I drove over to Nashville and walked into Emotiva's factory and took home a UMC-200. Well, yes, it sounded bigger and more bombastic especially since it gave so much more control over the EQ, especially the subs, and of course the newer codecs are an immediately notable upgrade.

But, as a 2-channel preamp, well, things just died. From the first play, voices no longer hovered holographically dead center. It was more diffused and confused sounding. The suspension of reality factor was gone, and now when I closed my eyes I still knew I was listening to speakers instead of my mind being tricked into believing there were actual instrumentalists and singers there.

I know I know it is off subject and the OP seemed to have no interest in comparing sound quality, which is confusing to me since that is one of the major reason's for the game.. how nice the music sounds. Sure, I get annoyed at the seemingly contradictory unofficial jargon, vocabulary etc. But it seems like a necessary evil when you are doing all this in writing. In the perfect world everyone could hear exactly what they are going to get before purchasing and installing.. Hmmm.. like the old days when we actually had specialty stores for that kind of stuff .....

 

[KPzypher]

This! While I haven't really thought about it much in my head-fi rig, back about 8 years ago I had my home theater rig running off the older Integra Research RDC-7 and was using active Martin Logan electrostats for stereo listening. The Integra was an incredible piece for 2-channel. Although it was a surround processor, the left and right channels had different DAC's that the center/surrounds. The were the venerable Burr Brown R2R 1704 chips in dual differential config, and it had one of the best jitter busting clocking systems at the time made by Apogee. It was truly a world class 2 channel preamp.

Well, I got the 'bug' to change to something that had the new lossless codecs for surround (True HD etc) so I drove over to Nashville and walked into Emotiva's factory and took home a UMC-200. Well, yes, it sounded bigger and more bombastic especially since it gave so much more control over the EQ, especially the subs, and of course the newer codecs are an immediately notable upgrade.

But, as a 2-channel preamp, well, things just died. From the first play, voices no longer hovered holographically dead center. It was more diffused and confused sounding. The suspension of reality factor was gone, and now when I closed my eyes I still knew I was listening to speakers instead of my mind being tricked into believing there were actual instrumentalists and singers there.

I know I know it is off subject and the OP seemed to have no interest in comparing sound quality, which is confusing to me since that is one of the major reason's for the game.. how nice the music sounds. Sure, I get annoyed at the seemingly contradictory unofficial jargon, vocabulary etc. But it seems like a necessary evil when you are doing all this in writing. In the perfect world everyone could hear exactly what they are going to get before purchasing and installing.. Hmmm.. like the old days when we actually had specialty stores for that kind of stuff .....

I'm not opposed to sound comparisons. Like you said, I'm just tired of meaningless jargon, personal opinion/preference being presented as facts, and misguided information.

With that being said, anyone can share their thoughts freely within the forum guidelines. Not like I can stop people from putting out false information.
I was just saying I personally don't care for them for reasons stated above.
So if you want to share your experience on the matter, fire away~

But you're definitely right regarding specialty stores. That's where I would be spending most of my free time if there was one in my area.

 

[]eep]

I'm not opposed to sound comparisons. Like you said, I'm just tired of meaningless jargon, personal opinion/preference being presented as facts, and misguided information.

With that being said, anyone can share their thoughts freely within the forum guidelines. Not like I can stop people from putting out false information.
I was just saying I personally don't care for them for reasons stated above.
So if you want to share your experience on the matter, fire away~

But you're definitely right regarding specialty stores. That's where I would be spending most of my free time if there was one in my area.

well, in another thread is said that 'I believe him' is quite a compliment in this age of 'influencers' and 'fake news' (where the fake news is actually more factual and researched than the corporate, 'fact checked' by an ngo on the payslip of a large company, biased copy paste press releases).

The problem is that we are flooded with deliberate ambiguity, vague words and self-contradicting phrases so that we lose the ability to reason clearly and discern fact from fiction, lies from lore, corellation from causality, data from info and opinions from news.

Somebody who knows what he is talking about will use concise words. Something that makes you go; hey, i recognize that. Imagery that paints a picture. Like painting with words. Sketching a picture that you can relate to to convey a thought or a feeling. Something like an R2R dac is like walking in the fresh snow on a bright cloudy winters day versus an DS is like walking on the beach with the sun shining in the calm waves. Ok, maybe a bit overly poetic, but when you have a little bit of imagination it does convey the right feeling. When you use a few you can get even better resolving power.



When done right you can even learn how to listen. Like wine tasters use that swollen language? If you know nothing about wines you shrug it off as idiotic and laughable. But when you know how to savor whine you start recognising the lingo, and once you understand it you start using it too. So go buy a bottle of wine, how will you know how it tastes? You need some sort of description because just 'ok' or 'great' or even 'perfect' (very dangerous) wont tell you if it goes with chicken, venison or roquefort cheese. You can take the chance for a $3 wine, but you need a bit more to go on for a $50 bottle than just 'awesome'.

Consequently I'm ok with a gamble on a $100 DAC, but i need a bit more to go on for a $700 DAC. Will it sound that much better? And how will it sound better. Is it worth the extra and/or are there conditions to get the most out of it. An old fashioned b&m store with an advisor that knows his stuff can actually save you money if it weren't for the enormous differences in wages in the post-globalisation era of ali-express and ebay.

 

[AlexBPM]

I personally find it unreasonable to suggest that comments on sound quality are silly or superfluous when posting in a forum dedicated to a hobby that is almost entirely dedicated to sound quality comparisons and impressions. Audio gear does not exist in a void, and must be compared and described in sound quality relative to other gear in order to have a frame a reference. This is akin to going to a cooking forum and suggesting that posting impressions on how food tastes is silly unnecessary.

 

[KPzypher]

I personally find it unreasonable to suggest that comments on sound quality are silly or superfluous when posting in a forum dedicated to a hobby that is almost entirely dedicated to sound quality comparisons and impressions. Audio gear does not exist in a void, and must be compared and described in sound quality relative to other gear in order to have a frame a reference. This is akin to going to a cooking forum and suggesting that posting impressions on how food tastes is silly unnecessary.

What part of below do you not understand???

I'm not opposed to sound comparisons. Like you said, I'm just tired of meaningless jargon, personal opinion/preference being presented as facts, and misguided information.
"With that being said, anyone can share their thoughts freely within the forum guidelines. Not like I can stop people from putting out false information.
I was just saying I personally don't care for them for reasons stated above.
So if you want to share your experience on the matter, fire away~ "

Wasn't asking for your concurrence nor your thoughts regarding my personal/subjective viewpoint.
Your sound impressions or how you perceive sound in general has zero bearing/influence regarding my purchases. That is just me. The only truth is that we all hear and perceive sound differently, therefore your impressions cannot act as a frame of reference. It has nothing to do with audio gear existing in a void. Simply put, when judging sound, I value my opinion far greater than yours. Unless we have identical hearing, shared sound preference, and a carbon-copy of what we consider 'ideal sound,' your comparisons and impressions are irrelevant (to me). You can ask the opinions of others all you want. That is your prerogative. But don't say I'm unreasonable just because I don't share your view on the idea. When it comes to DACs, I put strong emphasis on technical aspects, measurements, features and functions, far greater than I do when judging headphones. Once again, that's me.

Finally, I careless what you consider silly or superfluous and why you visit these forums. Just don't expect everyone else is here for the same reason you're. I'm definitely not here for sound impressions. If that's what you seek, good for you.

If you want to be productive, write something about the M400 instead of pointlessly writing about how you disagree with someone else's "personal" viewpoint.