[Steve Eddy]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Currawong /img/forum/go_quote.gif Interesting...balanced D7000s and K701s have a slightly better response? There was nothing in it with HD-650s, by the way.

I don't think those graphs are terribly useful for comparison purposes as I don't think they're even using the same headphones for the measurements.

Compare the impedance plot of the Beyer DT880 to the "balanced" DT880.

What's the difference between the regular Beyer DT880 and the "balanced" DT800 other than an XLR versus a TRS? That's not going to produce the difference in the impedance plots seen here.

Also, let's look at the differences in frequency response between the two models you compared.

Here's the AKG 701:

Here the "balanced" AKG 701 shows greater low frequency response compared to the regular AKG 701.

And here's the Denon D7000:

It's just the opposite. The regular D7000 shows greater lower frequency response to compared to the "balanced" D7000.

I think we need to wait until we can get someone with the appropriate measuring gear to run some new measurements so that we can account for and control all the variables.

k

 

[xnor]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Koyaan I. Sqatsi /img/forum/go_quote.gif So then how exactly do you experience reproduced audio?

Like everbody else, at least I hope so.

I just don't listen to the sound of the amp (like there was!

) but the music itself.

Quote:

Hey, if you see Neo before I do, tell him to program an iron clad lemon law into the Matrix, will ya?

ooh kay, but besides trying to be smarter than you I do program too

 

[Happy Camper]

Quote:

Originally Posted by glitch39 /img/forum/go_quote.gif this is not a scientific explanation - but subjective and repeatable. on my setup, I am able to switch between SE and balanced while keeping the same cans, cables, IC's, source and amp. Even when I volume match between the two, there is a DEFINITE change in soundstage width and sense of space/separation, in favor of balanced. I use the same tracks for testing. I also used the "virtual barbershop" track for testing. I can clearly hear the change in channel separation between SE and balanced. no amount of volume matching will fix that. See my sig for the equipment used.

The times I've listened to balanced rigs, the highlighted statement above is true. They also have more of an ability to keep the instruments separated during complex material. This is not to mean that SE amps can't do this too but you have to get into better amps to do it.

 

[glitch39]

been down the road many times where I just wanted to be analytical/technical on gear. Testing and listening was what I did still, but it was less enjoyable to me. So I instead put that aside and started "listening" again. Forget the graphs and learn to trust my ears instead. I am enjoying HF now more than ever, which makes the costs involved more bearable....

 

[upstateguy]

Quote:

Originally Posted by glitch39 /img/forum/go_quote.gif this is not a scientific explanation - but subjective and repeatable. on my setup, I am able to switch between SE and balanced while keeping the same cans, cables, IC's, source and amp. Even when I volume match between the two, there is a DEFINITE change in soundstage width and sense of space/separation, in favor of balanced. I use the same tracks for testing. I also used the "virtual barbershop" track for testing. I can clearly hear the change in channel separation between SE and balanced. no amount of volume matching will fix that. See my sig for the equipment used.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Happy Camper /img/forum/go_quote.gif The times I've listened to balanced rigs, the highlighted statement above is true. They also have more of an ability to keep the instruments separated during complex material. This is not to mean that SE amps can't do this too but you have to get into better amps to do it.

When I first joined HeadFi, the snake oil at the time was that you could fine tune your system with cables. If your system was too bright, you were to use copper wire to tone it down and if your system was too dark, you used silver wire to enhance the upper frequencies. The only problem with those claims was that frequency increases or decreases could be measured and verified. Over time, the cable people migrated away from claims that could be measured and verified, settling in on something that there was no direct measurement for, and that was sound stage.

USG

 

[Happy Camper]

Science has yet to learn it all. I don't hold them in less esteem.

Headphone listening attempts to give the illusion of 3D with varying success. How do you measure imaging performance?

 

[chinesekiwi]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Happy Camper /img/forum/go_quote.gif Headphone listening attempts to give the illusion of 3D with varying success. How do you measure imaging performance?

Key is depth of soundstage in imaging. Too many people focus on the left-right soundstage when the depth of the soundstage is important also.

 

[chinesekiwi]

Quote:

Originally Posted by jcx /img/forum/go_quote.gif my guess would be that the extra +6 dB of drive with balanced means you can listen louder without clipping - and even slightly louder is usually reported as "better sounding" other than the headroom the only technical improvements from bridged/balanced operation are in audibly insignificant numbers - only heroically bad amps should sound better bridged/balanced

So in other words, I can save a crapload of money by just Replay Gaining the files?
In fact thinking about it, Replay Gaining the digital audio files is better as it's easily reversible as Replay Gain is only metadata.
Correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[xnor]

Quote:

Originally Posted by glitch39 /img/forum/go_quote.gif been down the road many times where I just wanted to be analytical/technical on gear. Testing and listening was what I did still, but it was less enjoyable to me. So I instead put that aside and started "listening" again. Forget the graphs and learn to trust my ears instead. I am enjoying HF now more than ever, which makes the costs involved more bearable....

Emphasis by me.

There are also countless people that play in casinos and they think that they have more luck than others or that they have a feeling or even know how/when/what to bet to increase their chance of winning, yet they fail miserably altogether. And nothing will change that because that's how it is / how it works.
Like Dan Gilbert said, it's the same as flushing your money down the toilet with the only difference that it's less enjoyable.

Can you see the analogies?

<quote_protection>I'm not saying that bridged/balanced/... is a waste of money.</quote_protection>

 

[xnor]

Quote:

Originally Posted by chinesekiwi /img/forum/go_quote.gif So in other words, I can save a crapload of money by just Replay Gaining the files? In fact thinking about it, Replay Gaining the digital audio files is better as it's easily reversible as Replay Gain is only metadata. Correct me if I'm wrong.

I think that every dedicated (even portable) HP amp will allow you to destroy your ears easily, even with -15 dB replay gain.

Btw, replay gain was made for attenuation to even out track/album level differences, afaik.

 

[royalcrown]

Quote:

Originally Posted by chinesekiwi /img/forum/go_quote.gif So in other words, I can save a crapload of money by just Replay Gaining the files? In fact thinking about it, Replay Gaining the digital audio files is better as it's easily reversible as Replay Gain is only metadata. Correct me if I'm wrong.

If you add +6db via replaygain, you'll likely encounter clipping. If you want more volume, just turn the volume knob up.

 

[chinesekiwi]

Quote:

Originally Posted by royalcrown /img/forum/go_quote.gif If you add +6db via replaygain, you'll likely encounter clipping. If you want more volume, just turn the volume knob up.

I'm more talking about the usual application of Replay Gain, that being lowering the loudness of the recording thus increasing the 'volume range' of the headphones.

So basically what I get in this thread is that balanced amps make more of a difference than balanced headphones?

 

[linuxworks]

Quote:

Originally Posted by royalcrown /img/forum/go_quote.gif If you add +6db via replaygain, you'll likely encounter clipping. If you want more volume, just turn the volume knob up.

it doesn't have to be either/or

I've seen some fancy installs where replay gain (on the metadata) is sent to a remote volume control and the volume is adjusted in the analog domain (entirely) to the db level that the metadata 'wants'.

that's probably the most 'trick' use of RG. I have not done this (exactly) but it isn't that hard to do, really.

 

[linuxworks]

Quote:

Originally Posted by xnor /img/forum/go_quote.gif Btw, replay gain was made for attenuation to even out track/album level differences, afaik.

why would you care? its just relative numbering. if the current file has a higher number (or goes into positive) than its gain; else its atten.

I see no reason why it has to be ONLY atten.

 

[DoYouRight]

well every person who has heard balanced hd800 said its bass was better. I am hoping that is not like mental doping.