[Nitrium]

but does it reduce the amount of available power going into each amp? Because the dac is sending analogue signals out to the amps.

Not in a meaningful way, that I could notice.

 

[TitaniumDust]

I am getting my SA-1 on Monday! Chain will be: PC > Singxer SU-2 > Bifrost 2 > Singxer SA-1 > LCD-X. Recently sold my SP200 since I discovered that I actually liked my $100 Liquid Spark slightly better than the SP200, even with SP200 running "balanced" and Liquid Spark running single-ended. I seriously thought about forking over the cash for a Soloist 3XP, but thought I'd try the SA-1 first and see how it goes. I don't have any IEMs or hard-to-drive headphones, so I'm confident the SA-1 and its gain settings will have me totally covered.

 

[Random Lunatic]

I am getting my SA-1 on Monday! Chain will be: PC > Singxer SU-2 > Bifrost 2 > Singxer SA-1 > LCD-X. Recently sold my SP200 since I discovered that I actually liked my $100 Liquid Spark slightly better than the SP200, even with SP200 running "balanced" and Liquid Spark running single-ended. I seriously thought about forking over the cash for a Soloist 3XP, but thought I'd try the SA-1 first and see how it goes. I don't have any IEMs or hard-to-drive headphones, so I'm confident the SA-1 and its gain settings will have me totally covered.

I'll be very interested to hear how that goes, since I'm between the SA-1 and a Liquid Goldx... I know the spark isn't quite the Gold, but I'd wager it has some of the same Cavalli magic of adding some heft to the sound, so to speak?

 

[kdub]

I am getting my SA-1 on Monday! Chain will be: PC > Singxer SU-2 > Bifrost 2 > Singxer SA-1 > LCD-X. Recently sold my SP200 since I discovered that I actually liked my $100 Liquid Spark slightly better than the SP200, even with SP200 running "balanced" and Liquid Spark running single-ended. I seriously thought about forking over the cash for a Soloist 3XP, but thought I'd try the SA-1 first and see how it goes. I don't have any IEMs or hard-to-drive headphones, so I'm confident the SA-1 and its gain settings will have me totally covered.

I'm very curious about your chain setup. Is the SU-2 like a device to clean the usb noise before sending to the dac? Which output interface are you connecting SU-2 t the Bitfrost 2 dac? I don't see an usb out on the SU-2. I recently ordered an Allo USBridge Signature Player streamer but didn't know about this option you have. Currently I am only running an usb cable from Mac mini (running Audirvana) to SMSL SU-9 dac.

 

[TitaniumDust]

Is the SU-2 like a device to clean the usb noise before sending to the dac? Which output interface are you connecting SU-2 t the Bitfrost 2 dac?

The SU-2 is called a "USB Converter" or "Bridge" or DDC. It converts USB to standard digital outputs like coax, BNC, optical (I think?), AES and IIS. I have a nice silver USB cable from PC to DDC, then a high-end silver BNC/SPDIF cable connecting it to the Bifrost 2. While the USB inputs on most DACs are average in sound quality, the SU-2 does indeed isolate and re-clock the USB input (I think but don't quote me) and then outputs a really good-sounding signal that the USB input on most DACs just can't compete with. The USB input on DACs is, obviously, easier to use since you need fewer components and cables. I discovered many years ago the benefit of a good DDC. While I haven't tested the Bifrost 2 USB input, I did have the previous generation Schiit standalone USB DDC (I forget what it was called) and it wasn't even a fair comparison at the time compared to SU-2. I have no doubt that Schiit (and other companies) are starting to place more R&D on the USB input, but having a dedicated DDC is a must for me, personally. YMMV of course!

 

[Lolito]

The SU-2 is called a "USB Converter" or "Bridge" or DDC. It converts USB to standard digital outputs like coax, BNC, optical (I think?), AES and IIS. I have a nice silver USB cable from PC to DDC, then a high-end silver BNC/SPDIF cable connecting it to the Bifrost 2. While the USB inputs on most DACs are average in sound quality, the SU-2 does indeed isolate and re-clock the USB input (I think but don't quote me) and then outputs a really good-sounding signal that the USB input on most DACs just can't compete with. The USB input on DACs is, obviously, easier to use since you need fewer components and cables. I discovered many years ago the benefit of a good DDC. While I haven't tested the Bifrost 2 USB input, I did have the previous generation Schiit standalone USB DDC (I forget what it was called) and it wasn't even a fair comparison at the time compared to SU-2. I have no doubt that Schiit (and other companies) are starting to place more R&D on the USB input, but having a dedicated DDC is a must for me, personally. YMMV of course!

Sounds really interesting, I just wonder how much of worth it is it... Like, maybe a better r2r dac sounds already better? say ares2, instead of "USB cleaner" + just a decent dac... Just asking, I have no clue about the answer, but maybe you know, let us know, thanks!

 

[kdub]

The SU-2 is called a "USB Converter" or "Bridge" or DDC. It converts USB to standard digital outputs like coax, BNC, optical (I think?), AES and IIS. I have a nice silver USB cable from PC to DDC, then a high-end silver BNC/SPDIF cable connecting it to the Bifrost 2. While the USB inputs on most DACs are average in sound quality, the SU-2 does indeed isolate and re-clock the USB input (I think but don't quote me) and then outputs a really good-sounding signal that the USB input on most DACs just can't compete with. The USB input on DACs is, obviously, easier to use since you need fewer components and cables. I discovered many years ago the benefit of a good DDC. While I haven't tested the Bifrost 2 USB input, I did have the previous generation Schiit standalone USB DDC (I forget what it was called) and it wasn't even a fair comparison at the time compared to SU-2. I have no doubt that Schiit (and other companies) are starting to place more R&D on the USB input, but having a dedicated DDC is a must for me, personally. YMMV of course!

Thanks for the explanation. Didn't know there was such a product. I need usb input as my dac only decodes MQA via usb. So I guess the streamer option would be better in my chain.

 

[TitaniumDust]

Thanks for the explanation. Didn't know there was such a product. I need usb input as my dac only decodes MQA via usb. So I guess the streamer option would be better in my chain.

I think you are right. I don't have any experience with streamers, but my guess is that one of their biggest benefits is that they have better quality outputs compared to what you typically find on a computer, which would lessen any need for a dedicated USB device like the SU-2.

 

[Nitrium]

think about it, talk it with the wife to check her opinion about it, if it worth it maybe to take that walk on the wild side and test the high gain and or move the impedance switch. You never know what awaits you around the corner. In any case, it is quite a decision, so give it as much time as needed.

Haha, the reason I’m asking is because the gain switches couldn’t be placed in a more inconvenient spot in the SA-1 - it’s under the unit. So for those of us who have it stacked which a bunch of other stuff on top, it’s a major decision

 

[TitaniumDust]

Sounds really interesting, I just wonder how much of worth it is it... Like, maybe a better r2r dac sounds already better? say ares2, instead of "USB cleaner" + just a decent dac... Just asking, I have no clue about the answer, but maybe you know, let us know, thanks!

I can *try* to answer that based on my experiences, but keep in mind that every system and pair of ears is totally unique. To me, adding in a good DDC is like upgrading the DAC. On my Bifrost (1) the SPDIF input definitely sounded better than the USB input. I never tested USB on my Bifrost 2. On the flip side, if you get a good DDC and then use standard Amazon cables then you may see little (or even no) difference in going directly to the USB input on the DAC. I don't want to start any type of cable war here, but IMHO high-quality digital (and analog) cables make a real difference, especially on the digital end, which can seem counterintuitive. So, good DDC + good USB/SPDIF/HDMI/AES/transport cables = upgrading DAC to the next tier. You can always find DACs (usually more expensive) with good USB inputs which would lessen or negate the need for a DDC, so everyone's experience would be highly dependent on their own audio chain. I wish there was a definitive answer, but there is not.

 

[Lolito]

I can *try* to answer that based on my experiences, but keep in mind that every system and pair of ears is totally unique. To me, adding in a good DDC is like upgrading the DAC. On my Bifrost (1) the SPDIF input definitely sounded better than the USB input. I never tested USB on my Bifrost 2. On the flip side, if you get a good DDC and then use standard Amazon cables then you may see little (or even no) difference in going directly to the USB input on the DAC. I don't want to start any type of cable war here, but IMHO high-quality digital (and analog) cables make a real difference, especially on the digital end, which can seem counterintuitive. So, good DDC + good USB/SPDIF/HDMI/AES/transport cables = upgrading DAC to the next tier. You can always find DACs (usually more expensive) with good USB inputs which would lessen or negate the need for a DDC, so everyone's experience would be highly dependent on their own audio chain. I wish there was a definitive answer, but there is not.

thanks for the explanation, it comes from actual experience with such devices so it is highly appreciated. Budget limitations are also there so, at the end of the day $ will be key. But good information non the less. It is hard sometimes to test stuff, like I swapped my usb cable for an audiophile one, 10€ aliexpress shipped. I didn't even bother trying to compare any difference. I just hope it is more isolated, got a linear PSU for the dac.. Will eventually swap to something like an ARES2 pricewise, but nothing more, that is top of budget for a dac for me. 1000€ dac+amp

 

[kdub]

I think you are right. I don't have any experience with streamers, but my guess is that one of their biggest benefits is that they have better quality outputs compared to what you typically find on a computer, which would lessen any need for a dedicated USB device like the SU-2.

Yes from my understanding dedicated music streamers uses low jitter components or methods to reduce the noises from the ports. Link is for the one I ordered along with the upgraded Shanti power supply. https://allo.com/sparky/usbridge-signature-player.html

 

[Pharmaboy]

The SU-2 is called a "USB Converter" or "Bridge" or DDC. It converts USB to standard digital outputs like coax, BNC, optical (I think?), AES and IIS. I have a nice silver USB cable from PC to DDC, then a high-end silver BNC/SPDIF cable connecting it to the Bifrost 2. While the USB inputs on most DACs are average in sound quality, the SU-2 does indeed isolate and re-clock the USB input (I think but don't quote me) and then outputs a really good-sounding signal that the USB input on most DACs just can't compete with. The USB input on DACs is, obviously, easier to use since you need fewer components and cables. I discovered many years ago the benefit of a good DDC. While I haven't tested the Bifrost 2 USB input, I did have the previous generation Schiit standalone USB DDC (I forget what it was called) and it wasn't even a fair comparison at the time compared to SU-2. I have no doubt that Schiit (and other companies) are starting to place more R&D on the USB input, but having a dedicated DDC is a must for me, personally. YMMV of course!

Like you, I've used one SPDIF convertor or another for ~12 years. I started using toslink from my 1st converter (Musical Fidelity V-link 96) because I kept hearing that USB input boards did nothing good for sound (my 1st DAC had primitive sychronous USB). The USB implementation of DACs kept getting better, but especially after I switched to the coax output of my converter, no USB inputs could complete sonically w/coax in. Then ~3 years ago I upgraded from inexpensive Billy Jeans coax cable to a pricey silver one (Oyaide DR-510) based on positive user comments. They were right--the sound got even better.

I now have 2 different SPDIF converters: Musical Fidelity V-Link 192/24; and Wyred 4 Sound uLink. I generally use the V-Link because it's driven by the 5V signal on the USB cable, not a wall wart like the uLink. That's a real advantage in my complex desktop system, which is plagued by a groundloop I can't seem to eradicate.

 

[Jay_vs]

My SA-1 arrived today. My Gustard X16 is still on it's way. Hooked it up with RCA out of my Deckard. Initial impression is that it sounds slightly better than the amp in the Deckard. Just sounds cleaner, tighter bass and better detail separation. But running this balanced XLR so that probably is playing a part in that.
Very impressed for £380. I keep hearing various people say the LCD-X don't need lots of power, that is so not the case at all. This amp needs to be on high gain to get the best out of them. The Deckard needs to be on medium gain.
Very pleased with the SA-1, it's a keeper.

 

[godmax]

My SA-1 arrived today. My Gustard X16 is still on it's way. Hooked it up with RCA out of my Deckard. Initial impression is that it sounds slightly better than the amp in the Deckard. Just sounds cleaner, tighter bass and better detail separation. But running this balanced XLR so that probably is playing a part in that.
Very impressed for £380. I keep hearing various people say the LCD-X don't need lots of power, that is so not the case at all. This amp needs to be on high gain to get the best out of them. The Deckard needs to be on medium gain.
Very pleased with the SA-1, it's a keeper.

Give the SA-1 some days it will improve a bit (I could even reduce the volume after some days of use with the same headphones and source connected).
Yea getting sound off a headphone and power it properly is something different