[roderickvd]

I just want to check my understanding. Is it right to say that the primary benefit of balanced signals vs. unbalanced is that a balanced signal will typically have a lower noise floor? And outside of that, most of the other differences are just down to the amp circuitry being different at all, rather than specifically being balanced?

Maybe not to go into the technical details of the merits of balanced or not — certainly a topic of much debate and with many threads — in the case of SA-1 the device itself has been engineered and optimized for balanced in, balanced out. Every other configuration has higher noise (and coming back to your question, that’s not so much typical for balanced per se but it is for this device).

 

[hottyson]

I just want to check my understanding. Is it right to say that the primary benefit of balanced signals vs. unbalanced is that a balanced signal will typically have a lower noise floor? And outside of that, most of the other differences are just down to the amp circuitry being different at all, rather than specifically being balanced?

Balanced cables contain a third conductor used to both cancel out electrical interferences that interfere with the audio signal and sometimes also incorporated into the shielding. This is part of the reason why I used balanced signal interconnects in commercial settings with long runs always over fifty feet, crossing many circuits that would otherwise contaminate the signal. Yes, sometimes, to answer your question. In an electrically polluted environment, the noise floor may be increased due to electrical interference and the balanced interconnect would silence the introduced interference. In a home setting one is likely to have much less electrical interferences due to short interconnect runs and the silent nature of electronic interference pollution of home environments.

 

[hottyson]

in the case of SA-1 the device itself has been engineered and optimized for balanced in, balanced out. Every other configuration has higher noise (and coming back to your question, that’s not so much typical for balanced per se but it is for this device).

What cables did you use to test this? And, were they short runs typical of a home environment? Did the manufacture make this claim? Yes, the balanced output is engineered to be optimized in terms of power, but where does this claim stem from that the single ended input was not engineered well on the Singxer SA-1?

 

[roderickvd]

What cables did you use to test this? And, were they short runs typical of a home environment? Did the manufacture make this claim? Yes, the balanced output is engineered to be optimized in terms of power, but where does this claim stem from that the single ended input was not engineered well on the Singxer SA-1?

Yes, this was claimed by Singxer itself by voice of one of its engineers on ASR.

On SBAF there are measurements of the single-ended versus balanced operation.

To be super exact I did not say single ended was not engineered well, I repeated Singxer’s claim that it had been optimized for fully balanced operation.

 

[deafenears]

I have been using both RCA and XLR interconnects moving between them back and forth in all of my amps and DACs. I too do not notice any differences. If anything, my unbalanced interconnects are better because some of my RCA interconnects are high quality made from Canare Star Quad cable and WBT silver solder whereas my XLR are store bought. In the 1990s I used balanced cables in my pro-audio gear for work and that made a difference in commercial atmospheres that had lots of electrical pollution/interference. But, in home audio chains the use of balanced signals if often propagated misinformation based on myth.

Yes, this was claimed by Singxer itself by voice of one of its engineers on ASR.

On SBAF there are measurements of the single-ended versus balanced operation.

To be super exact I did not say single ended was not engineered well, I repeated Singxer’s claim that it had been optimized for fully balanced operation.

This post by @roderickvd . We're not talking about balanced vs. SE here. We're talking about this device, the Singxer SA-1. It was designed balanced, the circuits were all optimized for it. To convert to SE, there are some trade offs and the engineer from Singxer acknowledges and recommends balanced-in balanced out as the best. Even measurements, though I didn't want to bring that up, shows the same.

 

[hottyson]

.
I just hooked up both XLR balanced input and RCA single ended input from my Questyle CMA Twelve to my Singxer SA-1. I compared the sound of the music on a few tracks and prefered the single ended RCA on the Singxer SA-1. The RCA seemed slightly clearer. Probably because I made custom the cable out of good components.
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I also paused the music and played silence with the volume turned to maximum on the Singxer SA-1. Both balanced and single ended were DEAD SILENT. Just as I had suggested. These claims are nothing more than Head-fi stories on the internet continuing to propagate myth about balanced input over single ended input.
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Ultimately, on the Singxer SA-1, the RCA single ended inputs were engineered and implemented properly. To claim that I should be using XLR balanced interconnects over my RCA interconnects is a load of bollocks.

 

[FinHifi]

I previously wrote about high z an low z and how it affects sound on my adx5000, but did not include an example, now i have one:

In this song, with adx5000 at least, high z has a slightly wider soundstage, most notable in the beginning of this song.
I noticed this when I listened this and had left the setting on low z and thought that something was wrong as it did not feel the same. Switched back and the emotion was back. It might also be about notes "hanging" longer, a term I came across one day and not about the stage. This is a minor but notable difference in my opinion.

ps to test this, first run low-z and listen the beginning and then switch to high z and same. With rapid switching i cant hear a difference.

 

[roderickvd]

. I just hooked up both XLR balanced input and RCA single ended input from my Questyle CMA Twelve to my Singxer SA-1. I compared the sound of the music on a few tracks and prefered the single ended RCA on the Singxer SA-1. The RCA seemed slightly clearer. Probably because I made custom the cable out of good components. . I also paused the music and played silence with the volume turned to maximum on the Singxer SA-1. Both balanced and single ended were DEAD SILENT. Just as I had suggested. These claims are nothing more than Head-fi stories on the internet continuing to propagate myth about balanced input over single ended input. . Ultimately, on the Singxer SA-1, the RCA single ended inputs were engineered and implemented properly. To claim that I should be using XLR balanced interconnects over my RCA interconnects is a load of bollocks.

Don’t remember saying you *should* do anything. I’ll just leave this here: https://www.superbestaudiofriends.o...ingxer-sa-1-headphone-amp-measurements.12427/

I could look up the post by the Singxer engineer as well. Or not, as you seem to be implying that I’m full of it anyway. Your tone strikes me as hostile when I have only ever tried to be helpful.

 

[hottyson]

Don’t remember saying you *should* do anything. I’ll just leave this here: https://www.superbestaudiofriends.o...ingxer-sa-1-headphone-amp-measurements.12427/

I could look up the post by the Singxer engineer as well. Or not, as you seem to be implying that I’m full of it anyway. Your tone strikes me as hostile when I have only ever tried to be helpful.

I think if you read back at the posts, you will see that it was someone else that suggested that I not run my RCA interconnects and instead run balanced cables into my Singxer SA-1. Not you. You are mistaken suggesting that I identified yourself as the individual that made this statement to me.
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As for hostility. Some may find truth hostile. However it is better to deal with truth and put the misinformation to rest before too many forum members regurgitate lies that they believe because they had read somewhere else. It is all too common that forum members on Head-fi make unsubstantiated claims all too often based of theory, falsehoods, and propagated myth without any real world experience. This is really bad for those new to audio when they read our false posts and start believing it because they read it on Head-fi. I have been a longtime member of Head-fi and I am growing tired of those here on Head-fi that continue to destroy Head-fi reputation with this all too common spread of false information. Otherwise we may end up with a poor reputation similar to ASR.

 

[deafenears]

I think if you read back at the posts, you will see that it was someone else that suggested that I not run my RCA interconnects and instead run balanced cables into my Singxer SA-1. Not you. You are mistaken suggesting that I identified yourself as the individual that made this statement to me.
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As for hostility. Some may find truth hostile. However it is better to deal with truth and put the misinformation to rest before too many forum members regurgitate lies that they believe because they had read somewhere else. It is all too common that forum members on Head-fi make unsubstantiated claims all too often based of theory, falsehoods, and propagated myth without any real world experience. This is really bad for those new to audio when they read our false posts and start believing it because they read it on Head-fi. I have been a longtime member of Head-fi and I am growing tired of those here on Head-fi that continue to destroy Head-fi reputation with this all too common spread of false information. Otherwise we may end up with a poor reputation similar to ASR.

That would be me. Like I said, the amp was designed balanced and is what the engineer from Singxer recommends. It is also what is measured and proven better. I'm not spreading misinformation about balanced vs. SE but rather for this amp, balanced is best. If you can't hear a difference, that's fine, but still, the truth is, for this amp, there is a difference between balanced and SE.

 

[Thetaburn]

For a few months I have been listening to the Sa1 with the 4 modded jumper pins and I had to remove them due to listening fatigue.
The jumper mod makes a significant difference in high-end treble and clarity (at least 10-15%).
My headphones are the Arya V3 and more treble or clarity was not needed.
On high gain - I couldnt go pass 9 o'clock, as the treble and clarity were overwhelming.

My headphones are significantly louder and slightly more dynamic (this could be because the volume is louder using balanced cable vs stock SE.....) when used with balance in and balanced out.

 

[Tazyn]

Hifiman has its own vision of what the sound should be. Just like other companies. Perhaps the preset setting of your headphones does not go well with the sound of the mod. I have Snorry Si-1mk2 headphones. I do not feel the lack of mod.

 

[orangecrescent]

During testing my headphones, I accidentally have both headphones connected to the sa-1. One to the 4.4 and the other the xlr. I didn't fry the amp nor my headphones. They are all working correctly, with no noticeable sound differences from the headphones when both are connected. The two headphones have similar impedance and sensitivity. Is this allowed or I am just lucky? Because if I can plug both in it will be a lot easier when comparing them and reduce the tear and wear of the sockets.

 

[yaps66]

During testing my headphones, I accidentally have both headphones connected to the sa-1. One to the 4.4 and the other the xlr. I didn't fry the amp nor my headphones. They are all working correctly, with no noticeable sound differences from the headphones when both are connected. The two headphones have similar impedance and sensitivity. Is this allowed or I am just lucky? Because if I can plug both in it will be a lot easier when comparing them and reduce the tear and wear of the sockets.

For burn-in pủposes I plug in to all three outputs without any discernible difference (to my 56 year old ears).

 

[dstarr3]

During testing my headphones, I accidentally have both headphones connected to the sa-1. One to the 4.4 and the other the xlr. I didn't fry the amp nor my headphones. They are all working correctly, with no noticeable sound differences from the headphones when both are connected. The two headphones have similar impedance and sensitivity. Is this allowed or I am just lucky? Because if I can plug both in it will be a lot easier when comparing them and reduce the tear and wear of the sockets.

There's a chance that plugging or unplugging a 4.4mm or 3.5mm headphone while playing music into an XLR headphone could cause a brief short circuit that might have potential to damage something. So I would do all your plugging and unplugging while the amp is off or at least at minimum volume and/or not receiving a signal. But yeah, once everything is connected, playing music into multiple headphones is fine.