[Yikes]

To Multi-Driver proponents, Please tell me why you feel having more than one driver is technically superior?

All of the reasons that speakers use more than one driver are irrelevant in an IEM application. So please tell me why adding complexity (Veiling circuitry) in the form of crossovers and multiple drivers improves the sound?

Why do speakers use multiple drivers?

It’s for three main reasons.

Dispersion – When the size of a driver is larger than the wavelength that it is reproducing the sound beams. This is one reason why tweeters tend to be small. With an IEM the driver is aimed directly at the eardrum. This means that dispersion doesn’t matter.

Low Mass – Small drivers (Tweeters) are designed to have very low mass so that they can accelerate and decelerate more quickly. This is much more critical at high frequencies that require much greater rates of acceleration. This means lower distortion. IEM drivers are very small and very low mass so there is no need to have an even smaller tweeter.

Power Handling – Woofers are large to move large amounts of air; also being large they have big voice coils and magnet structures to allow high SPL. Because IEM’s are placed very close to the eardrum they don’t need to play very loudly whatsoever.

So please tell me why multiple drivers are needed for IEM’s?

Reasons to use a single driver in an IEM.

Less Complex – less expensive to build. No crossover circuitry to muck up the sound.

One Driver – With an IEM there is limited space. With a single driver the driver size (Diameter) can be maximized for better bass response and slam. A single driver is producing all sound so there are no phase errors being introduced by driver placement or crossover phase shift.

So IMHO sometimes more (The number of drivers) isn’t better, it’s just more.

Flame Away

 

[jjcha]

Not an exact analogy, but it does remind me of why Porsche uses flat 6's or boxster 6's in their cars instead of a V8.

I still maintain my Sensaphonics 2X-S is superior to my Shure E4c. But with those price differentials and design goals, I sure as heck hope so. Nothing makes the E5c or super.fi 5 Pro superior to the E4c or ER4P/S though. They're different, but not necessarly better.

Still, one day we may have a Carrera GT of of IEM... hmm. Dang, now I'm half tempted to pick up a E500 later today...

Best,

-Jason

 

[PiccoloNamek]

The only real reason to have more than one driver is to increase bass response for people who are into that sort of thing.

 

[nikongod]

Quote:

Originally Posted by PiccoloNamek The only real reason to have more than one driver is to increase bass response for people who are into that sort of thing.

electronic bass boost built into the amp, with an er4s sounds pretty similar in the bass.

 

[Medikit]

Another reason I like single driver IEM's is that they weigh less and thus are easier to ignore when they are in your ears.

 

[Tuarreg]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yikes To Multi-Driver proponents, Please tell me why you feel having more than one driver is technically superior? All of the reasons that speakers use more than one driver are irrelevant in an IEM application. So please tell me why adding complexity (Veiling circuitry) in the form of crossovers and multiple drivers improves the sound? Why do speakers use multiple drivers? It’s for three main reasons. Dispersion – When the size of a driver is larger than the wavelength that it is reproducing the sound beams. This is one reason why tweeters tend to be small. With an IEM the driver is aimed directly at the eardrum. This means that dispersion doesn’t matter. Low Mass – Small drivers (Tweeters) are designed to have very low mass so that they can accelerate and decelerate more quickly. This is much more critical at high frequencies that require much greater rates of acceleration. This means lower distortion. IEM drivers are very small and very low mass so there is no need to have an even smaller tweeter. Power Handling – Woofers are large to move large amounts of air; also being large they have big voice coils and magnet structures to allow high SPL. Because IEM’s are placed very close to the eardrum they don’t need to play very loudly whatsoever. So please tell me why multiple drivers are needed for IEM’s? Reasons to use a single driver in an IEM. Less Complex – less expensive to build. No crossover circuitry to muck up the sound. One Driver – With an IEM there is limited space. With a single driver the driver size (Diameter) can be maximized for better bass response and slam. A single driver is producing all sound so there are no phase errors being introduced by driver placement or crossover phase shift. So IMHO sometimes more (The number of drivers) isn’t better, it’s just more. Flame Away

Is that a rhetorical question or do you really want to know? If your answer is the latter, then instead of asking us consumers, why not direct your question to the actual designers and manufacturers of quality IEMs: UE, Westone, Shure, Etymotics and others. We all might learn something.

Tuarreg

 

[Yikes]

Representatives of manufacturers should feel free to answer, but I have read many owners bragging about their multi-driver IEM’s and how they are inherently superior. I have listed some reasons why I believe a single driver IEM (everything else being equal) is an inherently superior basic design. So I still would like to hear from proponents of multi-driver IEM’s, why do you feel that a multi-driver design is technically superior?

 

[JaZZ]

Quote:

Originally Posted by d_wilson Do you need a dual driver IEM, or did some marketing genius convince you that two drivers are better than one? The arguement for multiple drivers holds water when there are physical limitations to filling a large room with sound, and not a 1.4cc volume in your ear canal. What do you plan to gain from dual driver? Don Wilson, Etymotic Research

I tend to agree with Don Wilson and Yikes. After all my (modified) ER-4P sounds more accurate and linear to me than the E500, the only multi-driver IEM I've heard so far. The only «benefit» from multi-driver technology I can imagine is more bass or a generally full and warm sound. When it comes to detail and resolution, though, the multi-driver technology doesn't have to offer any advantages, just introduces phase problems.
.

 

[Woosh]

Quote:

Originally Posted by jjcha Not an exact analogy, but it does remind me of why Porsche uses flat 6's or boxster 6's in their cars instead of a V8. -Jason

Porsche uses flat 6 engines in their cars are solely for technical purposes. the cars that the boxer engine (3.6l flat 6) are present in such as the Carrera and the Boxter have rear over-hang engines this means it hangs over the rear axle in the boot of the car, a reverse of the conventional method. the use of flat 6 engines are for weight distribution purposes, a standard v8 engine can weight more than 200kgs, you dont want something that heavy dragging on your behind and ruining the handling of the car. thus a flat 6 engine places itself flat on the bed of the engine bay giving you the advantage of a rear engined car with minium compromises.


well i hope that solves your problem

 

[plainsong]

Quote:

Originally Posted by PiccoloNamek The only real reason to have more than one driver is to increase bass response for people who are into that sort of thing.

Oh for heaven's sakes. You have no earthly idea of what you're sprouting off about. You admited in the "Best IEMs Battle" thread that you've not heard the UE10, yet in another thread, about the triple.fi, you proclaim it is bass heavy. Now you say that _all_ dual or triple driver IEMs are bass heavy.

WTH? Go and listen to some, and then come back with an opinion. And even then, you'll only know the sound of those IEMs to which you have listened.

So uh, no, incorrect, wrong. You may love your etys but you can't talk with any valid opinion about IEMs you've never heard without listening to them.

To answer Yike's question, I'd say pick the pairs you're interested in, have a listen, and make your own conclusions. Univeral fits sound different from one set of ears to the next.

 

[PiccoloNamek]

Quote:

Originally Posted by plainsong Oh for heaven's sakes. You have no earthly idea of what you're sprouting off about. You admited in the "Best IEMs Battle" thread that you've not heard the UE10, yet in another thread, about the triple.fi, you proclaim it is bass heavy. Now you say that _all_ dual or triple driver IEMs are bass heavy.

My claim about the triple.fi's bass heaviness was based on the evaluation of the UE-10's FR chart. If the triple.fi has more bass than that, then indeed it would be bass heavy, to me. And don't put words in my mouth, I never claimed all multi-driver IEMs were "bass heavy". I said that typically the reason for using another driver is to increase bass response, which is true. Just look at the super.fi 5 pro, or EB, or E5C.

Quote:

WTH? Go and listen to some, and then come back with an opinion. And even then, you'll only know the sound of those IEMs to which you have listened.

I've owned the super.fi 5 pro. It was my first IEM. I thought it was mediocre at best.

Quote:

So uh, no, incorrect, wrong. You may love your etys but you can't talk with any valid opinion about IEMs you've never heard without listening to them.

I did not make any value judgements on any IEMs in this thread, (Not counting my comment on the 5 Pro above.) I merely stated what a second driver is typically used for, technically. You need to calm down.

 

[drarthurwells]

Quote:

Originally Posted by JaZZ I tend to agree with Don Wilson and Yikes. After all my (modified) ER-4P sounds more accurate and linear to me than the E500, the only multi-driver IEM I've heard so far. The only «benefit» from multi-driver technology I can imagine is more bass or a generally full and warm sound. When it comes to detail and resolution, though, the multi-driver technology doesn't have to offer any advantages, just introduces phase problems. .

Agree totally.

Phase coherence is an important reason for a single driver.

Etymotic has simply stayed with their old design for economic reasons - they should have done more to improve their single driver technology.

Time has caught up with them and we may see more single driver improvement in Etys in the future - unless they go with the current commercially hot multi driver approach.

 

[plainsong]

Ah, yes, the FR chart makes you an expert on a can-you-haven't-heard.

I'm calm, it's just a shame some newbie comes along and reads your proclomations and believes you know what you're talking about. It's simply common sense to listen to something first before putting forth opinions on the sound.

Putting opinions out there based on the impressions is one thing, but that has to be made clear in the text. This used to be a hard and fast rule here, but maybe not anymore.

I'm guessing from what you're saying that you don't see anything wrong with that, and that nothing I say is going to open up in your mind the even the most remote possibility that you're wrong, I'll just ask nicely that you don't talk about headphones that you haven't heard in such a way that it implies you have.

That's ok if you don't have any intentions of hearing another IEM, but please, keep your ideas as to their sound signature as ideas, and not firm facts.


Quote:

Originally Posted by PiccoloNamek My claim about the triple.fi's bass heaviness was based on the evaluation of the UE-10's FR chart. If the triple.fi has more bass than that, then indeed it would be bass heavy, to me. And don't put words in my mouth, I never claimed all multi-driver IEMs were "bass heavy". I said that typically the reason for using another driver is to increase bass response, which is true. Just look at the super.fi 5 pro, or EB, or E5C. I've owned the super.fi 5 pro. It was my first IEM. I thought it was mediocre at best. I did not make any value judgements on any IEMs in this thread, (Not counting my comment on the 5 Pro above.) I merely stated what a second driver is typically used for, technically. You need to calm down.

 

[PiccoloNamek]

Quote:

Ah, yes, the FR chart makes you an expert on a can-you-haven't-heard.

I've listened to enough headphones to be able to use a chart to make an educated guess as to the basic sound signature of a headphone, yes. For example, I can look at the super.fi 5EB's chart, and see that the curve for the bass goes up nearly to 20dBr at 20hz. It would be safe to say, even without hearing it, "This is an extremely bassy headphone". There is nothing wrong with this. I never claimed this made me an expert in anything, nor would I ever try to write a comprehensive review of a headphone just by looking at a chart. (Nor have I ever.)

Besides, this thread isn't about how any particular IEM sounds, it is a technical discussion about single versus multi driver IEMs and reasons why either configuration might be used. What is said is not technically incorrect, so I don't know what you're on about.

 

[plainsong]

Quote:

Originally Posted by PiccoloNamek Besides, this thread isn't about how any particular IEM sounds, it is a technical discussion about single versus multi driver IEMs and reasons why either configuration might be used. What is said is not technically incorrect, so I don't know what you're on about.

And that's the problem.

Dual driver =!bass heavy

Educated guess = completely wrong

And there's nothing really you can say to it (although you will anyway) because you haven't heard _all_ dual driver iems. Come on. What's so tough to understand about knowing what you're talking about before you talk about it?

For example, in another thread, someone wondered out loud if you'd heard the UE10, and he, owning the UE10's, commented on the actual sound signature. You chose not to answer that, and I don't know if he's 100% right or not, but I'll take his opinion over yours, since he actually has heard the UE10.

That's an example, and you're heading in the same direction in this thread. It's common sense.