[Rdr. Seraphim]

Re internal wiring, Bobby Palkovic owner of Merlin Music recommends Cardas (GR and Clear), partly, I suspect due to the fact that he uses Cardas inside his TSM and VSM loudspeakers.

 

[music_man]

i like the cardas golden reference. it is some type of copper that is stranded. of course tara and aq would say it is no good because it is stranded. at least it is pure copper, i like that. it is just a simple straight foward copper cable. even if it does subscribe to the "golden ratio".

vdh has a hybrid alloy. it is copper,silver and zinc coated with silver and also partially coated with carbon. other than hearing it i have no idea if that would sound good or not.
zinc does not seem like it would sound very good to me but i have no idea.

it seems i prefer very high grade copper most of the time. in digital a combination silver/copper(not spc) seems to work nicely. also silver/copper works good for me in balanced ic's sometimes. it has never hit home with me in speaker cables as of yet.

i wish siltech and crystal would say more than the very little they do about their cables. i understand it involves "trade secrets" but i'd at least like to know what exactly all that money would be going towards.

luckily they are represented in the usa by a company i have delt with in the past. so maybe i can hear them which is all that really matters.

overall i just enjoy collecting cables as of late whatever they are. i consider it a collection i enjoy more so than how they may perfrom sonically. keeping that in mind i am rarely disappointed. since honestly one can reach sonic bliss by visiting home depot it seems(per another thread here).

music_man

 

[DaveBSC]

Quote:

Originally Posted by music_man /img/forum/go_quote.gif either of the van der kley's cables sound intresting. i saw a very good argument about silver vs. copper from aj van den hul. he says silver is no better than copper for audio. the issue is that silver is handled much better at the factory because it is much more expensive and pulled slower. that is what makes silver better. copper is left sitting to oxidize etc. he states. i suppose he is using the silver to fill voids as well then? i don't know. black stuart, i am not at all against internal rewring. in fact it sounds like a great idea. i just don't want to do it the patrick82 way when i have time i have no problem doing it. music_man

Silver is less resistive than copper as a conductor, which is one argument for using it. I don't buy the argument though that copper is somehow "mistreated" or whatever, and there's a lot of generalization there. There are many grades of copper, from the lowest electrolytic tough pitch that's full of oxygen and impurities to the highest Ohno Continuous Cast and 8N coppers. Making pure, single grain OCC copper is definitely not cheap or easy, and after all of the work that goes in to keeping oxygen out during the casting, I doubt its "left sitting" to oxidize after the rods have been created.

Silver has its own grades, and low purity stuff used to make cheap silver cables can sound bright, etched and harsh. OCC silver in considered the best, although I've heard differing opinions on whether it actually exists. According to Paul at PS, it doesn't.

If someone wants to rewire my amp with tiny lengths of Indra that would be great. I'm not comfortable doing it myself, voiding the warranty, and risking blowing something up.

 

[DaveBSC]

Quote:

Originally Posted by music_man /img/forum/go_quote.gif i like the cardas golden reference. it is some type of copper that is stranded. of course tara and aq would say it is no good because it is stranded. at least it is pure copper, i like that. music_man

Cardas cables are a Litz design, not stranded. A Litz cable still uses lots of very small conductors instead of a big round or rectangular solid core conductor, but each individual conductor has its own insulation, so the signal does not jump between strands which is considered the big problem with a regular stranded wire. Litz cables are pretty unusual in the cable industry. Cardas and Nirvana use them, and maybe a few others that I can't think of, but that's about it. Litz is a massive PITA to DIY with, because each strand has to be stripped individually.

Once I'm happy with a particular setup, I like to do a lot of experimenting with different cables to see what additional performance I can bring out. Over the years of trying different cables I've found that there are a few companies whose products I tend to like a lot across the board - mainly Purist and Synergistic, and other companies with more specific models that I like, such as the Acoustic Zen Absolute and Stealth Indra interconnects, higher end Siltech Classic series, and Shunyata's new CX power cords.

Some cables that I would like to try are the new Audio Magic liquid air models, the Crystal Reference and Ultra series, the top of the line Stereovox cables, and the 6 Sons Audio Golden Eagle cables. From what I've heard from some Windigo owners, the Golden Eagles could be absolutely amazing.

 

[IPodPJ]

You guys do realize for the price you spend on these cables you could have world class components.

 

[BIG POPPA]

Quote:

Originally Posted by IPodPJ /img/forum/go_quote.gif You guys do realize for the price you spend on these cables you could have world class components.

This is why I make my own. Just ordered a some new cans. Have a little money left over for gear like that.

 

[music_man]

i do have world class components by most peoples standards i figure. i am just putting the icing on the cake. there are many flavors of icing and it is the final touch. so you never really know if you had the last say. that is why i do not stop trying new cables at every chance i get!

i don't see how anyone can say that these super technology packed cables sound no better than a radioshack cable. even a good hdmi cable and power cord makes your plasma look much better imho. there may not be an explanation for why they work but what is in them is no secret usually. they use the finest materials and workmanship which if nothing else is what justifies there cost. all i can say is "the proof is in the pudding". that is how i feel about it.

indeed, some very cheap cables sound amazingly good and many folks would stop right there. i am like the guy that keeps trying to get one more hp out of a 1200hp daily driver. it matters to me.

guys, do you feel the best verifiable silver sounds better than occ or 8n copper, especially when the copper is hand polished like aq does? aq charges a lot more for their polished silver cables. the wel signature puts them amongst the highest priced cables now. i still prefer their best copper offerings. i think aq and tara make great copper.

music_man

 

[DaveBSC]

Quote:

Originally Posted by IPodPJ /img/forum/go_quote.gif You guys do realize for the price you spend on these cables you could have world class components.

Right now I'm working on my new headphone setup. I have the STAX O2 Mk1s, and as far as I'm concerned, there's nowhere higher to go. Same with the KGSS amp. If you want a commercially available solid state electrostatic headamp, that's as good as it gets right now. The last thing I need to add is a world class DAC worthy of these two, and I'm not going to sacrifice there so I can buy a more expensive interconnect or power cord.

At the same time, I'm not going to limit the capabilities of the KGSS or DAC by using stock AC cords straight into a wall outlet, or by using $10 XLR cables.

 

[music_man]

each strand in the cardas is enamled and right next to each other? i guess there is not enough voltage there to charge the enamel. other companies use a conductive dielectric. this is why i made the thread "cables are a bunch of tradeoffs". everyone designs a cable differently. that is how they all compete for us to buy theirs. which one works best i do not look to with any prejudice. may the best cable....end up in my system!

music_man

 

[Rdr. Seraphim]

Quote:

Originally Posted by IPodPJ /img/forum/go_quote.gif You guys do realize for the price you spend on these cables you could have world class components.

Some of us (not me) has a few of them too

 

[Rdr. Seraphim]

I was delighted by the difference my Harmonic Technology Magic Link II IC's made with the lil' $99 µDAC. In fact it was a revelation, literally night and day, because much of the music was previously obscured, veiled and just plain missing. With the HT's in place, instruments that could NOT be heard were fully revealed.

(NOTE: Of course the HT's are about $1K new, so we're talking about a disproportionate comparison. Conversely, it speaks wonders about what the lil' µDAC is capable of!)

Some of my own DIY weavings have been pretty darn good, including some from Home Depot and the Rat Shack. However, I have not been able to reproduce the SQ in any of my DIY projects the equivalent of the top tier manufactures, at least to my personal satisfaction.

Cables should not hinder nor hide the music, regardless of cost. For me, it has taken a lot of experimentation to find the icing that makes the cake. I've heard cheap cables sound pretty good in high-end systems. And I've heard the same system with top tier cables sound much better.

Sadly (for my pocketbook), I've never heard a less expensive cable enable top tier sound in a top tier system. In other words, in a top tier system, cables can be the limiting factor in attaining top tier sound quality.

 

[Rdr. Seraphim]

Quote:

Originally Posted by music_man /img/forum/go_quote.gif is silver coated copper wire the best both copper and silver have to offer or the worst of both? or does it just depend on the particular cable? to be honest all my ic's are pure silver and my speaker and headphone wires are pure copper. i think that was probably a better way of achieving the balance. i hope i was right! thanks, music_man

Music_man, I guess I fall closer to your flavor of cables than not. I definitely am an all Cu fan on the speaker cable side. I've settled on the hybrid Cu/Ag hybrid IC in the HTs, finding that the all copper Cardas GR's just to be too warm, syrupy and lush. The 60/40 combination in the HT's hit the sweet spot in my system.

I've also heard the HT Photon Cables in my friend's system and they are well, "clear." Balance and presentation is almost beyond reproach. These pretty much eliminate any vestige of traditional cable coloration as it relates to materials purity, at least for ICs. I believe HT's Photon cables may be a good match between a high quality DAC and headphone amp. Hmm...

 

[music_man]

i just wonder about the vdh hybrid and no one ever really commented on them.
"High purity dense Silver coated high purity Matched Crystal OFC + FUSION TECHNOLOGY: amorphous Cu/Zn/Ag alloy + HYBRID: Linear Structured Carbon ® saturated layer(s)"

custom cable. please do not answer this since you sell them.
they are cheap, worth a try? there has to be some catch that this is so inexpensive.

edit: maybe i can asnwer my own question. it seems speaker cables are not really vdh's area of intrest. there decent speaker cables are about $50usd a meter and range from $10usd a meter to $450usd a meter. on the other hand they make interconnects that are $10,500usd a meter! i think that might answer the question. they employ much fancier stuff than their speaker cables(platinum) for instance. also they are so scarce i'd be ordering them from overseas. there must be a reason.

thanks,
music_man

 

[DaveBSC]

Quote:

Originally Posted by music_man /img/forum/go_quote.gif edit: maybe i can asnwer my own question. it seems speaker cables are not really vdh's area of intrest. there decent speaker cables are about $50usd a meter and range from $10usd a meter to $450usd a meter. on the other hand they make interconnects that are $10,500usd a meter! i think that might answer the question. they employ much fancier stuff than their speaker cables(platinum) for instance. also they are so scarce i'd be ordering them from overseas. there must be a reason. thanks, music_man

You see that with a lot of cable companies, some just choose to not seriously compete in all areas. Kimber for example seems to have no real interest in power cords. The Palladians haven't changed in ages and aren't really competitive with any of the top power cords.

 

[music_man]

i have read a few intresting things from reliable sources. kimber kable apparently makes $8,000+ stranded cables. as do a few other companies.

strand jumping and skin effect should not be issues at audio frequencies. however there seems to be a difference many people can hear between a stranded and a solid cable.

spc was originally developed to provide anticorrosive properties to copper. again, it should not make a sonic difference being that there is negligable skin effect at audio frequencies. of course many audiophiles disagree. their argument is that the lower frequencies ride on the copper and the higher frequencies ride on the silver. silver tends to have less desireable effects at higher frequencies many say. that is why spc is less desireable it seems.

this is what i have read all over the internet.
so i don't know what to make of it. if soemone can hear the differences then i do not disbelieve them. for one thing i think i can.

edit: actually all of this has already been mentioned in this thread i see. i'll leave it up to everyones ears!


music_man