Side By Side Comparison - AirPods Max, B&O H95, Dali iO-6, B&W PX8, ML 5909, M&D MW75, Focal Bathys and more

[angelom]

I'm planning on trying the Dali IO-12 with my computer and an amp to see how that works out. Overall, the form factor has me loving the H100.

I can telling you right now that don't matter what amp you use (cheap or expensive) the fully passive mode (wired-only with no electronics) of the iO-12's tonal balance is very different to the BT and USB-C modes tonal balance. I you prefer a more thin/lean sound, then fully passive mode maybe better for you. I personally think that BT and USB-C's tonal balance is the best and what Dali really intending thanks to DSP.

If you want a headphone that really giving you excellent tonal balance in ALL modes (without changing much at all), the Solitaire T (ST) is the only one headphone that achieving this -- the tonal balance in BT, BT "HQ mode", ANC, USB-C and fully passive mode is very, very close. AND --and I don't know this personally from experience-- the ST, in difference with the ML 5909, is scaling (using an amp) very well in fully passive mode (this is coming from people that owning both the ST and 5909). The ST is the only ANC headphone where possibly more owners actually using this headphone in fully passive mode more than in BT or ANC mode (they saying that only when travelling or commuting they then using BT/BT HQ/ANC modes).

 

[ddlo]

And you're also asking for comparisons when his/her Apollo audition is only 10 minutes and, apparently, the iO-12 audition is even more short??

Yes, I just had short demo periods about 10mins in different occasions for io-12 and Apollo and certainly not enough to have thorough understanding on both products (but of course still a great benefit for being able to demo in person before making the decision to purchase or not). so hope to get more opinions here about them after long term, real life use. Not necessarily agreeing or fully accepting 100% of them as many aspects are subjective, but nonetheless found lots of useful insight and sharing here and in the io-12 thread.

 

[ddlo]

Look here about Dali iO-12.

Audio-Technica ATH-WB2022. If I'm not mistaken, these are the most expensive Bluetooth headphones (3k €).
Their price is already comparable to used top-end full-size wired headphones, but the sound characteristics of Audio-Technica ATH-WB2022 are still of interest.

Can you briefly describe their sound (possibly in comparison)?

Thank you!

Thanks for sharing. Read through quickly and learnt some useful insight there.

For wb2022, to maintain the harmony in this thread, I think better going to check previous discussions over there (and continue somewhere else if needed) rather than here. but i think the impression of high price is mainly due to price disparity in different markets. wb2022 was only 350000yen new in japan (when it's still available), roughly us$2k after tax rebate.

 

[DrSeven]

This thread is starting to have a degree of cross-over with others, but at the risk of repeating myself, I think the B&O H100 satisfies every consideration, and therefore the cost is worth it. It just seems like all of these other headphones have one compromise or another. For me, I despise fiddling with buttons on BT headphones. It's infernal on the Px8 and the Bathys, and even to some extent the IO-12s.

If you don't feel like forking over such a huge sum for the H100, I would say IO-12 is a great option. I have not tried the ML or the Solitares, but based on what I have read here, I don't see many people saying that they are lagging the IO-12 by much if at all.

If we assume that the MLs are as cheap as the Bathys, the concern might be that you'll want an IO-12 or an H100 in a year anyway. There's maybe an argument for trying to resolve as definitively as possible these various concerns.

Putting aside the annoyance an on/off button and other form factor issues that lag the H100, I think the IO-12 is also a feat of engineering, and that an immense amount of thought and care went into them.

For me not being an expert on Bluetooth headphones it's really interesting and unexpected to hear that B&O is actually making something that's on par with the Dali and T+A. Especially when they quote some guy from Forbes comparing them to buying a Rolex (fine then I'd rather chose the Vacheron Constantin ). I assumed T+A and Dali io12 where on another class after reading from most people here - and on audiophile blogs - that they are considered best in class. So now I'm definitely interested in a comparison of the three. I like the idea with the replaceable parts on the B&O.

Your point with wanting to upgrade at some point/ getting the usual nervosa of missing out though... is so much spot on! Get out of my head my friend!

Edit: I hope my post isn't taken the wrong way by anyone - I was just genuinely wondering: I just don't have enough knowledge about the Bluetooth audio market. If I offended anyone sorry was NOT intended

 

[ekjellgren]

 

[bronco1015]

I haven't heard the H100, but I do have the iO12 and am glad to see someone else call out its energy around 100 HZ. For me it's not just there, but also around 250 HZ that makes the bass sound over emphasized to the point that it crowds out the rest of the mix.
I also listen to Jazz and notice this on some tracks, but when I've observed it I notice it in other Genres as well. IF memory serves I mentioned this in my initial impressions in the io12 thread, and I wondered if it would lessen the more I used the headphone. I feel like i've adjusted to it a little, but it is still present, and I find that if I lower 100 and 200 HZ, and add a little bump around 30 HZ, it preserves that detail but gives the over all sound what feels to me to be a more anchored feel with solid but not over powering and better textured bass. I think that is what I hear more than anything actually in the default tuning. not just that there is to much emphasis around 100-250 HZ for me, but it also affects the texture of the bass I feel.
This isn't the only Headphone I've noticed this with though. A few examples, the Yamaha YH 700L and MW75 both have this issue for me in their default tuning. i enjoyed the MW75 in what M&D calls its "audiophile" preset, though it did have a spiky sounding treble I felt at times.
i also experienced this with the XM5 and PSB M4u 9.
Other than that, I enjoy the iO12, but I use it more eqed with my DAP, which is just a recently retired V60 still going strong after 4 years plus.
i was surprised to hear him call out the UX3000. It wasn't my favorite sounding headphone but I felt it was underrated and oddly enough, i just sold it to someone yesterday.
Also shout out for the QC Ultra. I created a preset that I really enjoy vs the default tuning..

 

[Bahnhof Zoo]

I haven't heard the H100, but I do have the iO12 and am glad to see someone else call out its energy around 100 HZ. For me it's not just there, but also around 250 HZ that makes the bass sound over emphasized to the point that it crowds out the rest of the mix.
I also listen to Jazz and notice this on some tracks, but when I've observed it I notice it in other Genres as well. IF memory serves I mentioned this in my initial impressions in the io12 thread, and I wondered if it would lessen the more I used the headphone. I feel like i've adjusted to it a little, but it is still present, and I find that if I lower 100 and 200 HZ, and add a little bump around 30 HZ, it preserves that detail but gives the over all sound what feels to me to be a more anchored feel with solid but not over powering and better textured bass. I think that is what I hear more than anything actually in the default tuning. not just that there is to much emphasis around 100-250 HZ for me, but it also affects the texture of the bass I feel.
This isn't the only Headphone I've noticed this with though. A few examples, the Yamaha YH 700L and MW75 both have this issue for me in their default tuning. i enjoyed the MW75 in what M&D calls its "audiophile" preset, though it did have a spiky sounding treble I felt at times.
i also experienced this with the XM5 and PSB M4u 9.
Other than that, I enjoy the iO12, but I use it more eqed with my DAP, which is just a recently retired V60 still going strong after 4 years plus.
i was surprised to hear him call out the UX3000. It wasn't my favorite sounding headphone but I felt it was underrated and oddly enough, i just sold it to someone yesterday.
Also shout out for the QC Ultra. I created a preset that I really enjoy vs the default tuning..

Sound wise …how would you compare the IO-12 with the M4U 9? I had the IO 12 before I got the M4Us so was never able to actually compare the two at the same time but going from memory I’d say they’re pretty similar.

 

[bronco1015]

Sound wise …how would you compare the IO-12 with the M4U 9? I had the IO 12 before I got the M4Us so was never able to actually compare the two at the same time but going from memory I’d say they’re pretty similar.

I think there are some similarities between the 2 but I am also going off memory since I no longer have the M4u 9.
From memory, the iO12 has better bass over all, but like the M4u 9 also could use a touch more emphasis in that area.
Mids to me are much smoother on the iO12, though they weren't bad on the PSB.
I personally feel like the treble is more enjoyable on the Dalis, as it sometimes felt fatiguing to me.
I generally don't have that issue with most gear so it surprised me, also because it never stood out to me as an immediate observation, it was just over time.
I also feel like imaging and the soundstage on the iO12 vs the M4u 9 are not even close, with the iO12 besting the M4u 9.

 

[Bahnhof Zoo]

I agree with him completely on the IO 12. I personally couldn’t justify the cost but to each their own of course.

 

[Dalmonegrig]

I agree with him completely on the IO 12. I personally couldn’t justify the cost but to each their own of course.

In fact, he admits that at the current time, the Dali iO-12 has better sound quality compared to the others tested full-size Bluetooth headphones. Based on this circumstance and despite the criticism towards the Dali iO-12, their price is justified, as they are the flagship in sound quality among full-size Bluetooth headphones.

 

[Bahnhof Zoo]

In fact, he admits that at the current time, the Dali iO-12 has better sound quality compared to the others tested full-size Bluetooth headphones. Based on this circumstance and despite the criticism towards the Dali iO-12, their price is justified, as they are the flagship in sound quality among full-size Bluetooth headphones.

he literally rates the momentum 4 and the Bose qc ultra a tier higher. Granted he’s taking all factors into consideration but that in itself wouldn’t have me feeling particularly great about paying over $1000 more for the IO 12 (if you’re in the US at least). It’s exactly how I felt when I had the momentum 4 and the IO 12. I’d switch back and forth between the two questioning why I paid over a thousand dollars for the Dali. Does Dali sound better? Yes. Is it over $1000 better? No way. Again I’m speaking for those in the USA. I understand that the Dali is way more affordable in Europe.

 

[Dalmonegrig]

he literally rates the momentum 4 and the Bose qc ultra a tier higher. Granted he’s taking all factors into consideration but that in itself wouldn’t have me feeling particularly great about paying over $1000 more for the IO 12 (if you’re in the US at least). It’s exactly how I felt when I had the momentum 4 and the IO 12. I’d switch back and forth between the two questioning why I paid over a thousand dollars for the Dali. Does Dali sound better? Yes. Is it over $1000 better? No way. Again I’m speaking for those in the USA. I understand that the Dali is way more affordable in Europe.

In this hobby, this situation is called the principle of diminishing returns.
Would I buy the Sennheiser MOMENTUM 4 or the Bose QuietComfort Ultra? No. I don't need them with their sound quality.
So I still have the Dali iO-12, and the other full-size wired headphones that cost more are already sold.

 

[Tolarian]

Also shout out for the QC Ultra. I created a preset that I really enjoy vs the default tuning..

Can you share your preset? I'm interested!

 

[bronco1015]

Can you share your preset? I'm interested!

Sure!
I added plus 2 in the bass with the goal if getting more low end bass specifically and better texture. then plus 7 in the mids and plus 8 in the treble.

 

[bronco1015]

I wanted to share some initial impressions after using the Cambridge Audio melomania p100.
I received these Headphones for Christmas and I am a huge fan.
Immediately after pairing and downloading the melomania app, I was prompted to update the firmware which took maybe 5 minutes and was a very smooth process.
i haven't had a chance to use the ANC much in normal demanding ANC scenarios, but the ANC did a solid job of illiminating the low rumbling noise of an old Furnace where we stayed. These days, that seems common for the most part in ANC headphones at almost any price, but this Furnace had a sort of droaning motor sound that was quite loud, so it wasn't just the sound of air the ANC was illiminating. While i haven't had a chance yet to confirm, it does seem like the ANC could be better than the minimum.
Transparency mode even at the highest setting wasn't bad, but not the best i've heard either. Both the ANC and Transparency modes have varrying levels you can choose. however, both the ANC and transparency have a hiss that is so distracting that i probably won't use either much while wearing these headphones.
I haven't connected them via USB TypeC to a device, or via typeC-3.5MM connection, only via bluetooth paired to my Xperia 1V.
The build has some good feeling plastic on the outside of the earcups, and a round metal portion with a dimple on each side.
To me, the build of these headphones seems to borrow from a few different models.
The underside of the headband feels a lot like that of the H95, the cloth feeling to me almost identical. This does seem reinforced pretty well. I haven't had the splitting headband on my h95 that I have read about from other people, but I honestly feel like the underside of the P100s Headband is equal to if not a bit sturdier than that of the H95. The plastic pieces which extend from the top of the outter plastic to the Headband, specifically the small pieces connecting the 2 and not the round portion that sits over top of the earcups, are the weakest feeling portions of the headphone to me, but don't feel flimsy at all. To me they feel inspired from the supports that connect the top of the earcup and headband of the XM5, but the supports of the Melomania feel thicker, as they should considering the larger headband and earcups. They are well proportioned however. The top of the headband is synthetic leather that feels suitable. The Earpads are also synthetic leather, but are very comfortable with plenty of room for my ears, and don't heat up for me like I experienced with the WH 1000X m5.
The design of the earcups reminds me a bit of that of the px8 and MW75. They are not sleek like the pX8, but they remind me of the PX8 earcups design language in their shape, and the earcup shape of the MW75 as well.
One caveat is that i am totally blind, so I am going from memory of the PX8, but I haven't had one in hand for nearly 2 years.
Call quality is fine in quiet environments, but callers said that every little noise around me was audible, so I would only use these for calls if there was no other noise present.
The default sound has to much bass for my liking, and while this post ended up being longer than I initially meant it to be, I am still making mental notes of the sound until I have a chance to eq them to my preference and see what I feel are their strengths and weaknesses.
I will say though that the blues preset is very enjoyable to me. The bass feels more relaxed all throughout and I hear some distinction above say 60 HZ that i don't feel interfeers with the mids much if at all.
The bass has a texture that I feel is lacking on other bluetooth Headphones and has a nice weighty but proportioned feel. It feels like a great anchor to the over all sound.
however, both in this preset as well as the default, there are definitely times where the bass loses that great textured feel and gets less controled.
The class AB amplification seems to play a significant role of the over all sound. relative to other headphones in this price range and higher, the sound to me has this vividness and realism that is quite impressive. I have played Drums and percussion for most of my life, and I really enjoy drums on these headphones.
Treble seems rolled off to me to much in the default tuning, and over corrected in the blues preset, but i don't listen at loud volume levels most of the time, so the sound is not fatiguing to my ears.
The sound stage is not the widest even in the bluetooth space, but the sound in general is so good that I find it easy to enjoy what i feel these Headphones excel at and only think about the potential faults when i'm analyzing. To me, these Headphones are an easy listen and recommendation to audition.