Side By Side Comparison - AirPods Max, B&O H95, Dali iO-6, B&W PX8, ML 5909, M&D MW75, Focal Bathys and more

[neil74]

Thanks for doing these comparisons, what a great thread.

I currently have the QC ultras, PX7s2e and the 2023 standard QCs (warranty replacment for QC45s). I am probably selling the QCs.

I'll admit I was surprised to see the XM5s score so highly for comfort, for me at least like the XM3 and XM4s before them they cooked my ears to point of being unusable.

Of my current crop I think I prefer the B&W, the only doubt is on ANC which I want to test some more. The Bose QC Ultras are super comfortable but mine have a knocking when used whilst walking, I say knocking as that is what it sounds like but I think it is an ANC thing. So I might be returning the Ultras.

 

[Bahnhof Zoo]

The PSB m4u 8 mk 2 are on sale for $249. Plus another 10% off when you sign up for their newsletter. Been eyeing up the espresso brown for a bit and $220 something seems like a no brainer. Supposedly a wider sound than the m4u 9. Think I'm gonna grab a pair and see how they stack up with the momentum 4 etc.

Woah…these things are fantastic. PSB where have you been all my life? Detailed, spacious and actually make the momentum sound a bit muddy. Room feel and personalized sound work. I may do a full comparison with the momentum, perhaps in another thread after some more testing but these appear to be a winner and could be my next daily driver.

 

[kadinh]

I currently have the Px7 s2e and H95. Looking to get the Px8 to compare, possibly sell them all and upgrade to a higher tier headphone.

 

[TRHH]

This will probably be my next one: "Noble Audio FoKus Apollo Wireless Headphones"

• Patented world's first hybrid dual driver arrangement
• Lossless audio with LDAC, Snapdragon Sound, AAC, aptX, and aptX HD
• Bluetooth 5.3
• Best battery life on the market with 80 hours play time (ANC off, 50% VOL)
• Premium anodized aluminum frame and memory foam Korean Protein leather earpads

Torben

 

[mainguy]

This will probably be my next one: "Noble Audio FoKus Apollo Wireless Headphones"

• Patented world's first hybrid dual driver arrangement
• Lossless audio with LDAC, Snapdragon Sound, AAC, aptX, and aptX HD
• Bluetooth 5.3
• Best battery life on the market with 80 hours play time (ANC off, 50% VOL)
• Premium anodized aluminum frame and memory foam Korean Protein leather earpads

Torben

LDAC on a BT headphone, finally! Very nice

 

[angelom]

LDAC on a BT headphone, finally! Very nice

The 4 years old Shure Aonic 50 and the 2 years old Mark Levinson 5909 already offering LDAC.

LDAC, scientifically, for human ears (in genuine blind tests) isn’t offering better sound than AAC or aptX, but marketing nonsense is VERY effective, like is in several other aspects of audio.

 

[mainguy]

The 4 years old Shure Aonic 50 and the 2 years old Mark Levinson 5909 already offering LDAC.

LDAC, scientifically, for human ears (in genuine blind tests) isn’t offering better sound than AAC or aptX, but marketing nonsense is VERY effective, like is in several other aspects of audio.

Oh I wasn't aware of the 5909, not really a price I'd spend on BT headphones so I suppose I haven't looked into it much.

Re LDAC, Where is the scientific paper for that by the way? I hadn't heard of the tests. I know LDAC has a far higher bit rate than AAC and even Aptx HD, which should bring the performance closer to lossless.

 

[Maukey]

This will probably be my next one: "Noble Audio FoKus Apollo Wireless Headphones"

• Patented world's first hybrid dual driver arrangement
• Lossless audio with LDAC, Snapdragon Sound, AAC, aptX, and aptX HD
• Bluetooth 5.3
• Best battery life on the market with 80 hours play time (ANC off, 50% VOL)
• Premium anodized aluminum frame and memory foam Korean Protein leather earpads

Torben

Very interested in these.

 

[newworld666]

The 4 years old Shure Aonic 50 and the 2 years old Mark Levinson 5909 already offering LDAC.

LDAC, scientifically, for human ears (in genuine blind tests) isn’t offering better sound than AAC or aptX, but marketing nonsense is VERY effective, like is in several other aspects of audio.

Nope !!! it just need a few minutes to make instant A/B (by switching on off ldac) comparison with most android devices to catch the difference between AAC and LDAC with LDAC headphones or TWS,
Comparing with APTx Adaptative, it's a bit less easy, like with LDAC adaptative too.

So I would say, it's a pure Apple marketing for years (before they changed this with Apple lossless) to make some people believe that a 3.5 times higher bitrate has no effect on SQ !!!!

LDAC is even not at a complete level of a 40 years CD quality... and of course less than Apple's lossless that is now promoted hardly !!!!

 

[mainguy]

Nope !!! it just need a few minutes to make instant A/B (by switching on off ldac) comparison with most android devices to catch the difference between AAC and LDAC with LDAC headphones or TWS,
Comparing with APTx Adaptative, it's a bit less easy, like with LDAC adaptative too.

So I would say, it's a pure Apple marketing for years (before they changed this with Apple lossless) to make some people believe that a 3.5 times higher bitrate has no effect on SQ !!!!

LDAC is even not at a complete level of a 40 years CD quality... and of course less than Apple's lossless that is now promoted hardly !!!!

This makes sense, I mean plenty of products sound very different on AAC vs Aptx HD, focal bathys for example. I imagine LDAC should be better as long as it's implemented well.

 

[angelom]

Nope !!! it just need a few minutes to make instant A/B (by switching on off ldac) comparison with most android devices to catch the difference between AAC and LDAC with LDAC headphones or TWS,
Comparing with APTx Adaptative, it's a bit less easy, like with LDAC adaptative too.

So I would say, it's a pure Apple marketing for years (before they changed this with Apple lossless) to make some people believe that a 3.5 times higher bitrate has no effect on SQ !!!!

LDAC is even not at a complete level of a 40 years CD quality... and of course less than Apple's lossless that is now promoted hardly !!!!

Go to the science forum of head-fi and post exactly the same comments. You will not surviving 5 seconds there.

 

[mainguy]

Go to the science forum of head-fi and post exactly the same comments. You will not surviving 5 seconds there.

You may be right, can you link the paper/s in question you are referring to though? We clearly haven't seen them.

 

[Bahnhof Zoo]

You may be right, can you link the paper/s in question you are referring to though? We clearly haven't seen them.

plenty in here…have fun.
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/dalis-soft-magnetic-composite-driver.972243/

 

[TheOneInYellow]

I'm going to copy and paste something I wrote as a comment on Reddit.
It is a semi-detailed yet still summary of Bluetooth tech, because, I think, many people are still not fully aware of the nuances of how Bluetooth codecs and (Qualcomm) Bluetooth chips decode said codecs, as well as how the entire process further influences the frequency spectrum.

For more detailed info, you can check this Bluetooth guide by Audiophile Heaven (last updated: 24/05/2023), but bear in mind that AptX Lossless is not mentioned.

Anyway, here's my Reddit comment:

---

CD quality music, also known as the Redbook standard, CDDA, etc, has the following sampling rate: 16 bit/44.1 kHz.
44.1 kHz is equivalent to 1411kbps for playback.

Though 1411 kbps is the maximum for CD quality music, most music will not hit that high throughout playback of a song, as this varies. It depends on the quality of the mastering of said music/song.

The highest Bluetooth codecs are AptX Adaptive, LDAC, and AptX Lossless.

Let's take LDAC as an example (and I'll copy a reply post I wrote a few minutes ago to another redditor on an earlier thread):

Bluetooth LDAC codec has three tiers of quality:

- 990 kbps (L3)
- 660 kbps (L2)
- 330 kbps (L1)

If you play your music via Bluetooth LDAC in less electrically noisy communication environments (your home), you'll likely hit Level 3 quality of LDAC, so 990 kbps.
Once you get into environments with more noise (commuting on busses or trains, where other people are using Bluetooth, WiFi, etc), LDAC will drop in quality to sustain a connection between your Bluetooth devices.
You will not know when this happens as most apps will not disclose this (due to LDAC and other Bluetooth codec specification guidelines).

Most Bluetooth codecs have a ladder style maximum ceilings for audio quality playback, such as LDAC.
However, some are variable, such as AptX Adaptive, in which the changes of quality as you move into different environments is scalable instead.

AptX Lossless, for example, is 1100 kbps – 1200 kbps, the highest and closest to the maximum CD quality standard of 1411 kbps.
However, as per Darkø Audio's March 2024 article, AptX Lossless might be an offshoot of AptX Adaptive Level 5 protocol.

Further, as Bluetooth quality changes within a codec depending on environmental changes, so do the harmonics of the audio playback, specifically high-frequency roll-off; an example of these frequency changes in specific codecs can be read from this 2020 review of the Shanling MW200 IEM Bluetooth neckband adapter by Headphonesty (look for the SBC, aptx, aptX HD Frequency Response graph).

There's more to this, but that's the gist to get started down this rabbit hole

 

[mainguy]

plenty in here…have fun.
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/dalis-soft-magnetic-composite-driver.972243/

I'm seeing a lot of posts, many from Angelom repeating what he said here, I can't find a study and am not trawling through over a dozen pages for it. Surely if it's scientific fact as Angelom says, there must be numerous and conclusive studies or if it is elementary, a simple engineer's breakdown of why LDAC is snake oil and sounds no better than AAC. Just interesting and would like to see the source that's prefrably not forum posts.