[delladood]

The title says it all. I want everybody's opinions on this! Why do you think the SE535 has 3 drivers and a 2-way crossover? Something other companies dont know? Or a lack of technology?

 

[wahu]

Lots of 3 driver BA iems have a 2 way crossover don't they?  I would have thought that most do. 

 

[delladood]

I don't see it as being a common trend. W3, UM3X, SM3, TF10, Every custom 3driver IEM, etc... All have 3 drivers, all use 3-way crossover.

 

[wahu]

I think triple fi 10 is a 2 way
 
Edit. I think lots of custom iems have a 2-way also. I think 1964 ears, JH audio, Unique melody all have a model with 3 drivers and a 2 way crossover? I'm a total noob with iems tho but with speakers the number of crossovers isn't the "be all and end all" of audio quality. There are good and bad speakers with all kinds of crossovers. I'm assuming it's the same with iems? Lots of people on the forum love some full range driver iems too?

 

[tdshain]

Quote:

The title says it all. I want everybody's opinions on this! Why do you think the SE535 has 3 drivers and a 2-way crossover? Something other companies dont know? Or a lack of technology?

That's a question for Shure's engineers. Clearly they feel that their setup produces the best sound as is, or it wouldn't be their flagship model. It's the same type of argument that often comes up with the number of drivers, more does not necessarily mean better. A good example are the PFE 232s: 2 driver BA with 2 way crossover and they are one of the top universals on the market.
 
Opinions are meaningless unless they are backed up by technical knowledge. If you really want to understand, then you should study the technology instead of using blanket statements based on unrelated products.

 

[Jeremypsp]

Quote:

The title says it all. I want everybody's opinions on this! Why do you think the SE535 has 3 drivers and a 2-way crossover? Something other companies dont know? Or a lack of technology?

That's because they wanted the SE535 to sound very close to the SE530 and using a three-way may change the sound significantly which is not what they want.

I heard someone I know speculate that they *may* be a 4 driver Shure though... although I have no evidence to back it up... 

 

[delladood]

The title says it all. I want everybody's opinions on this! Why do you think the SE535 has 3 drivers and a 2-way crossover? Something other companies dont know? Or a lack of technology?

That's a question for Shure's engineers. Clearly they feel that their setup produces the best sound as is, or it wouldn't be their flagship model. It's the same type of argument that often comes up with the number of drivers, more does not necessarily mean better. A good example are the PFE 232s: 2 driver BA with 2 way crossover and they are one of the top universals on the market.

Opinions are meaningless unless they are backed up by technical knowledge. If you really want to understand, then you should study the technology instead of using blanket statements based on unrelated products.

in regards to this comment, I do fully understand the technical aspect of the SE535 Infact I could give you the names of the two drivers that they use. I also have a 100% knowledge of how crossovers work, and how to make them.

 

[Jeremypsp]

Quote:

in regards to this comment, I do fully understand the technical aspect of the SE535 Infact I could give you the names of the two drivers that they use. I also have a 100% knowledge of how crossovers work, and how to make them.

Tell me more about how you can make your own IEMs... (LOL) 

 

[delladood]

Quote:

Quote:

in regards to this comment, I do fully understand the technical aspect of the SE535 Infact I could give you the names of the two drivers that they use. I also have a 100% knowledge of how crossovers work, and how to make them.

Tell me more about how you can make your own IEMs... (LOL) 

Don't make me start on my vietnam stories!

 

[BTan]

The no. of crossovers used are dictated by the choice or design of the drivers used in the IEM.

Many IEMs run on a single driver handling the full-frequency range (I.e. no crossover). However, there is no one single driver that can handle the whole frequency spectrum well - material resonances will come into play affecting certain frequencies, etc., and such IEMs are accordingly compromised by the limitations of the chosen single driver; e.g. shelved down treble and bass, phase anomalies, etc.

Applying multi-driver set-ups such as those employed in 2 or 3-way IEMs allows the designer to cherry pick different drivers for their best characteristics, i.e. a particular driver for its treble character, and diff. drivers for their bass and midrange character.

A crossover's function is to electronically split a music signal into a range of frequency spectrums that will fit to the selected drivers operating range. Accordingly, the no. of crossovers are dictated more by the designers choices of drivers rather than the no. of drivers used.

In the case of the Shure, it would appear that one driver handles the mid-to-HF duties, and the other 2 drivers handle the LFs, hence the crossover being 2-way.

 

[delladood]

Quote:

The no. of crossovers used are dictated by the choice or design of the drivers used in the IEM.

Many IEMs run on a single driver handling the full-frequency range (I.e. no crossover). However, there is no one single driver that can handle the whole frequency spectrum well - material resonances will come into play affecting certain frequencies, etc., and such IEMs are accordingly compromised by the limitations of the chosen single driver; e.g. shelved down treble and bass, phase anomalies, etc.

Applying multi-driver set-ups such as those employed in 2 or 3-way IEMs allows the designer to cherry pick different drivers for their best characteristics, i.e. a particular driver for its treble character, and diff. drivers for their bass and midrange character.

A crossover's function is to electronically split a music signal into a range of frequency spectrums that will fit to the selected drivers operating range. Accordingly, the no. of crossovers are dictated more by the designers choices of drivers rather than the no. of drivers used.

In the case of the Shure, it would appear that one driver handles the mid-to-HF duties, and the other 2 drivers handle the LFs, hence the crossover being 2-way.

I'm aware of how the technology works. I have about 16 capacitors and about 2 3-way crossovers sitting infront of me right now...  I just feel like it is kind of a waste...  You really only need two drivers to begin with... It makes sense.  Think of cars... tweeters and woofers.  My car didn't come with squakers(mid).  Perhaps the SE535 is the reality of a crossover. I mean, the PFE232 is an amazing piece of work with only 2 drivers.  I'd be interested to see a 2-way crossover with dual dynamic drivers.

 

[wahu]

Quote:

I'm aware of how the technology works. I have about 16 capacitors and about 2 3-way crossovers sitting infront of me right now...  I just feel like it is kind of a waste...  You really only need two drivers to begin with... It makes sense.  Think of cars... tweeters and woofers.  My car didn't come with squakers(mid).  Perhaps the SE535 is the reality of a crossover. I mean, the PFE232 is an amazing piece of work with only 2 drivers.  I'd be interested to see a 2-way crossover with dual dynamic drivers.

I think BA drivers struggle to produce bass more than the other frequencies so lots of BA based iems have dual bass drivers regardless of whether or not they are 2-way or 3-way. It may actually work out to be a waste to use one of the se535's bass drivers in the midrange. Also in a universal design space is limited so a choice has to be made how to best utilise the 3 drivers. Lost of cars have a full-range speaker and you might buy a sub for the boot(or trunk if you are in the US). If you are into building iems then this seams like pretty basic stuff...? There is a book i read once before building my diy desktop speakers. I think it was "the loud speaker design cookbook" or something. It's all pretty complex but suffice to say you can have good results out of both a 2-way and a 3-way design(and 4-way).
 
Drivers needed for midrange are smaller than the ones used for bass so if you wanted a se535 3-way you might need different drivers. Maybe a TWFK and keep the 2 bass drivers? Or if you really wanted just 3 drivers you might need 1 really big bass driver and different drivers also for the mid and high.. ie a completely different approach to the se535. With speakers you can sometimes get more punchiness out of smaller drivers but sacrifice some low end extension. Using 2 drivers vs 1 bigger one will result in iems with different strengths and weaknesses. I think if lots of custom iems use a 2-way design it can't be all bad

 

[delladood]

Quote:

Quote:

I'm aware of how the technology works. I have about 16 capacitors and about 2 3-way crossovers sitting infront of me right now...  I just feel like it is kind of a waste...  You really only need two drivers to begin with... It makes sense.  Think of cars... tweeters and woofers.  My car didn't come with squakers(mid).  Perhaps the SE535 is the reality of a crossover. I mean, the PFE232 is an amazing piece of work with only 2 drivers.  I'd be interested to see a 2-way crossover with dual dynamic drivers.

I think BA drivers struggle to produce bass more than the other frequencies so lots of BA based iems have dual bass drivers regardless of whether or not they are 2-way or 3-way. It may actually work out to be a waste to use one of the se535's bass drivers in the midrange. Also in a universal design space is limited so a choice has to be made how to best utilise the 3 drivers. Lost of cars have a full-range speaker and you might buy a sub for the boot(or trunk if you are in the US). If you are into building iems then this seams like pretty basic stuff...? There is a book i read once before building my diy desktop speakers. I think it was "the loud speaker design cookbook" or something. It's all pretty complex but suffice to say you can have good results out of both a 2-way and a 3-way design(and 4-way).
 
Drivers needed for midrange are smaller than the ones used for bass so if you wanted a se535 3-way you might need different drivers. Maybe a TWFK and keep the 2 bass drivers? Or if you really wanted just 3 drivers you might need 1 really big bass driver and different drivers also for the mid and high.. ie a completely different approach to the se535. With speakers you can sometimes get more punchiness out of smaller drivers but sacrifice some low end extension. Using 2 drivers vs 1 bigger one will result in iems with different strengths and weaknesses. I think if lots of custom iems use a 2-way design it can't be all bad

nahhh not bad at all.  TWFK for mids and lows, and a KA30093 for Highs.  Thats the general trend.  

 

[wahu]

Quote:

nahhh not bad at all.  TWFK for mids and lows, and a KA30093 for Highs.  Thats the general trend.  

If you want to build 3 driver iems why not order one of each custom and see which you like best? Get a 1964-t, a UM Aero, a JH7, An UERM, and a Heir 3.a. You could give is a comparison of every 3-driver BA iem and tell us the strengths and weaknesses between them regarding a 2 or 3-way design.

 

[delladood]

LOL... Right after I win the lottery