[ClieOS]

Quote:

Originally Posted by HeadphoneAddict /img/forum/go_quote.gif It's not even my busted IEM and I'm getting ticked off.

No need to take it too literary. The point he is trying to make is about 'No way to crack down on it*'.
(*grey market)

Buying stuff on eBay from a third party or from any unauthorized dealer is no different from buying from seller on your local flea market. No matter if the good is NIB or not, you know you are taking a chance. As I said before, it might be sad to see Shure not warranting grey market purchase, but it is not unexpected.

 

[Cyric]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ClieOS /img/forum/go_quote.gif No need to take it too literary. The point he is trying to make is about 'No way to crack down on it*'. (*grey market) Buying stuff on eBay from a third party or from any unauthorized dealer is no different from buying from seller on your local flea market. No matter if the good is NIB or not, you know you are taking a chance. As I said before, it might be sad to see Shure not warranting grey market purchase, but it is not unexpected.

Yep. That is my point. And it's not like other manufacturers (shure including) did not warn end users about the risks of buying from unauthorized sources.

When working for my previous company (which distributed a brand of flash memory in Singapore), I've actually seen people market that brand of memory cards online, claiming that warranty would be covered by us. The actual fact was we didn't even have the stock for that particular product in our inventory. So obviously the guy's a fake, at least where warranty coverage is claimed.

Problem here is, what would we be able to do about him? If authorities cannot even crack down on people distributing pirated songs and videos on the web, what can a distributor do about someone selling his products legally on the web? He can claim anything, end of the day it's up to the consumer to bring the case up against him should it not prove valid. We tried warning the person, we made police reports, tried all legal avenues, but nothing at all we could do.

The best I've managed so far was to get him to remove any reference to my ex-company. He could still sell those products online, and people will still be claiming warranty because of the brand name.

A company is set up with the sole purpose of profit making, but when push comes to shove, then survivability comes first. Of course I'd like to provide top class customer service, but it still has to be justified. Otherwise I'd probably just end up losing my job, then someone else takes over and we'll start all over from square 1.

P.S. This mainly applies to consumers in Singapore. I'm not too familiar with the scene in the states, but I understand that as most of the manufacturers have head offices there, warranty isn't the biggest of issues.

 

[mister__big]

I just got an email from Francis from Shure Asia. Basically I had to escalate this matter to their legal department to get their attention, which is pretty ass-backwards. Shure is now no longer denying my claim that I'm entitled to warranty, and they have asked me to send in the E500s to Shure Asia for them to verify if it's an original or a knockoff which I'm happy to do and have been wanting to do since the very beginning if not for their customer service who refused to give me the information on how to send it in.

BTW, Francis' claim that the price I bought the E500s at is far too low for any market is not valid, as I did browse several other distributors' websites (Earphonesolutions.com and Headroom) before I made the purchase and the prices were less than 10% apart IIRC. But if he had said that the price is far too low for any ASIAN market then I'd agree, seeing that the same E500s were being sold in retail stores in Singapore for over 150% the price I bought it for.

I will be sending them in ASAP and updating this thread as things go along.

--------------------
Dear xxxxxx,

How are you?

Your concern has been forwarded to my attention. I would like to inform you that Shure Asia Service and our Legal Department have further reviewed the email communications and the PayPal receipt you have attached. Please allow me to provide you with more details on your warranty claim request.

From what we have learnt from your PayPal receipt,

1. The product was obtained through an individual called “Bob Rathunde Sr”.
2. We were unable to verify that the E500 earphone was sold to you as your name does not appear on the receipt; and.
3. The selling price of US$279.99 on the receipt is far too low for a new E500 earphone being sold in any market.


Due to the above findings, we cannot rule out that the earphone you purchased is not a second-hand product. In this regard, please note that our E-series warranty states that Shure warrants that our earphone products will be free in normal use of any defects in materials and workmanship for a period of two years from the date of purchase. The two year warranty only relates to new products.

Despite the above and given the earlier confusion on the matter for which we apologize, we suggest that you send your earphones direct to Shure Asia in Hong Kong marked for my attention so that your earphones can be examined.

The shipping details;

Shure Asia Limited
Service Department
3/F, Citicorp Centre, 18 Whitfield Road,
Causeway Bay, Hong Kong
Tel： (852) 2893 4290
Fax： (852) 2893 4055


Following the inspection of your earphones, I will contact you again as to whether we have opted to repair or replace the unit.


Best regards,

Francis Lai
Regional Service Manager
Shure Asia Limited

 

[linuxworks]

Quote:

Originally Posted by AC1 /img/forum/go_quote.gif Explain to me why Shure should take any responsibility for this one?

they BUILT the phones.

people seem to be forgetting that small little fact.

they built them, sold them (to someone, right? or were they stolen in bulk off the assembly line?)

they have a manuf defect. ie, they did a bad job building them.

they SHOULD cover them. all this 'sales channels talk' is just BS. the real issue is: a manuf build a faulty product and is playing sales-channels games to avoid fixing what they didn't build right the first time.

that's the short of it.

 

[FYJX]

Quote:

Originally Posted by linuxworks /img/forum/go_quote.gif they BUILT the phones. people seem to be forgetting that small little fact. they built them, sold them (to someone, right? or were they stolen in bulk off the assembly line?) they have a manuf defect. ie, they did a bad job building them. they SHOULD cover them. all this 'sales channels talk' is just BS. the real issue is: a manuf build a faulty product and is playing sales-channels games to avoid fixing what they didn't build right the first time. that's the short of it.

Yes they did build it, but the fact is they don't want to warrant non-authorized dealers because they don't know if they say dip the unit in acid, and pump it up with water, repackage it and sell it to customers for cheap. Then people going to Shure and asking for warranty, because it wasn't a defect from them to begin with., then they lose alll these units because of one unauthorized dealer to "screw" around with things.

It's very reasonable that Shure refuses warranty for unauthorized dealers. Shure knows they can reduce warranty claims, and keep quality control into their hands if they only distribute to authorized dealers.

 

[Arjisme]

Quote:

Originally Posted by linuxworks /img/forum/go_quote.gif they BUILT the phones. people seem to be forgetting that small little fact. they built them, sold them (to someone, right? or were they stolen in bulk off the assembly line?) they have a manuf defect. ie, they did a bad job building them. they SHOULD cover them. all this 'sales channels talk' is just BS. the real issue is: a manuf build a faulty product and is playing sales-channels games to avoid fixing what they didn't build right the first time. that's the short of it.

So, just to understand the fundamental principle you are advocating: a manufacturer should provide an unlimited lifetime warranty against manufacturing defects on their products?

And if they don't, that is unacceptable and we should boycott them?

 

[linuxworks]

I never said unlimited.

but I also never said 'exclude those who bought legit goods 'too cheaply'.

this is a bad precident. it ALLOWS and ENCOURAGES price fixing.

companies who do this and then try to short their customers (they ARE their customers unless the goods are truly fake) are low-life companies, in my book.

if they were fake, then shure has NO duty to help any one out who buys them. no one is saying otherwise.

but if they came off a shure line, they should COVER them. why would they not? and don't make up words I didn't say, like 'unlimited'. I never said that and would never expect a perpetual warranty on ANYTHING these days, no matter what price it was it.

 

[linuxworks]

Quote:

Originally Posted by MaoDi /img/forum/go_quote.gif It's very reasonable that Shure refuses warranty for unauthorized dealers. Shure knows they can reduce warranty claims, and keep quality control into their hands if they only distribute to authorized dealers.

the only reason to monkey with warranty terms (as a company) is to control cost.

its never, ever, because you care about customers or that you feel your product is robustly made.

you toy with terms because some bean counter said you could get to level X on your VP promotion plan if you draw this line 'there'.

its all about money. just like insurance is all about how many claims they can deny (insurance comanies, not shure, in this example).

but dont' cloud the issue by saying that they were fake or messed with. lets not go down that path and lets assume they WERE made by shure and they did fail due to a known (!) manuf problem.

why would an end user care about the VP's money promotion/vacation perk package that he got by drawing the cut-off line at some arbitrary point?

the customer gets screwed and won't return. I find that more telling than the so-called good service this company gives.

each time someone denies a valid repair claim, I think a lot less of that company.

and I now think a lot less of this dept of shure. I won't buy their stuff given how they act; now that I see how the company treats its customers.

 

[cyberspyder]

If only Shure was like Surefire and Strider...

 

[Arjisme]

Quote:

Originally Posted by linuxworks /img/forum/go_quote.gif but if they came off a shure line, they should COVER them. why would they not? and don't make up words I didn't say, like 'unlimited'. I never said that and would never expect a perpetual warranty on ANYTHING these days, no matter what price it was it.

Wasn't trying to put words in your mouth. I was trying to understand the core principle you are advocating and was having a hard time seeing how, in principle, we should assert something like "they built it, they should fix it" and at the same time agree that it should be restricted in some fashion (i.e. "...but only in the first two years." or "...but only if bought new." and the like). The limitations seem arbitrary to me. Why should we accept those?

 

[linuxworks]

we weren't discussing duration of warranty, were we?

we were discussing if the company feels ANY responsibility to things THEY THEMSELVES MAKE.

its that simple.

 

[Arjisme]

OK, nevermind. Sorry to have wasted your time.

 

[linuxworks]

I'm a bit sensitive to when manuf's play distribution games to avoid the natural market forces, such as 'parallel imports'.

nikon comes to mind. I now boycott nikon products because of their insistence on having to buy USA models or not get any kind of repair 'privs', even for-fee. even if I offer to pay for a repair, they have (in the past) denied access to repair centers if you did not pay the 'nikon usa tax' fee at purchase time.

I hate that. so much that I now avoid nikon.

its not that way with all companies. again, using cameras, I find that olympus honors worldwide warrantees. a much more user-friendly company, imho.

so, such companies do exist. not all have to be greed-mongers and play the 'ha ha, no warrantee for you!' game.

 

[music_4321]

Quote:

Originally Posted by linuxworks /img/forum/go_quote.gif they BUILT the phones. people seem to be forgetting that small little fact. they built them, sold them (to someone, right? or were they stolen in bulk off the assembly line?) they have a manuf defect. ie, they did a bad job building them. they SHOULD cover them. all this 'sales channels talk' is just BS. the real issue is: a manuf build a faulty product and is playing sales-channels games to avoid fixing what they didn't build right the first time. that's the short of it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by linuxworks /img/forum/go_quote.gif I never said unlimited. but I also never said 'exclude those who bought legit goods 'too cheaply'. this is a bad precident. it ALLOWS and ENCOURAGES price fixing. companies who do this and then try to short their customers (they ARE their customers unless the goods are truly fake) are low-life companies, in my book. if they were fake, then shure has NO duty to help any one out who buys them. no one is saying otherwise. but if they came off a shure line, they should COVER them. why would they not? and don't make up words I didn't say, like 'unlimited'. I never said that and would never expect a perpetual warranty on ANYTHING these days, no matter what price it was it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by linuxworks /img/forum/go_quote.gif the only reason to monkey with warranty terms (as a company) is to control cost. its never, ever, because you care about customers or that you feel your product is robustly made. you toy with terms because some bean counter said you could get to level X on your VP promotion plan if you draw this line 'there'. its all about money. just like insurance is all about how many claims they can deny (insurance comanies, not shure, in this example). but dont' cloud the issue by saying that they were fake or messed with. lets not go down that path and lets assume they WERE made by shure and they did fail due to a known (!) manuf problem. why would an end user care about the VP's money promotion/vacation perk package that he got by drawing the cut-off line at some arbitrary point? the customer gets screwed and won't return. I find that more telling than the so-called good service this company gives. each time someone denies a valid repair claim, I think a lot less of that company. and I now think a lot less of this dept of shure. I won't buy their stuff given how they act; now that I see how the company treats its customers.

Quote:

Originally Posted by linuxworks /img/forum/go_quote.gif we weren't discussing duration of warranty, were we? we were discussing if the company feels ANY responsibility to things THEY THEMSELVES MAKE. its that simple.

Quote:

Originally Posted by linuxworks /img/forum/go_quote.gif I'm a bit sensitive to when manuf's play distribution games to avoid the natural market forces, such as 'parallel imports'. nikon comes to mind. I now boycott nikon products because of their insistence on having to buy USA models or not get any kind of repair 'privs', even for-fee. even if I offer to pay for a repair, they have (in the past) denied access to repair centers if you did not pay the 'nikon usa tax' fee at purchase time. I hate that. so much that I now avoid nikon. its not that way with all companies. again, using cameras, I find that olympus honors worldwide warrantees. a much more user-friendly company, imho. so, such companies do exist. not all have to be greed-mongers and play the 'ha ha, no warrantee for you!' game.

Agree with you 100% and will add that no matter how little one pays for this particular (legit) item, it still remains a very expensive product. As long as it's not a fake, and is within the 2-year warranty period, I think Shure (or any other company) should honour the warranty.

 

[FYJX]

The reason of controling cost is very reasonable i think. Shure doesn't want people buying dead Se530's on Ebay, for $50 with a receipt and trading them in for the 100% working thing with accessories which cost more than $50. Customer Service is very important, but they can't let customers just roam around messing the companies CS management.

Company's offer warranty because they understand customers would need it for when their products fail. The company didn't put the warranty in for people buying on the internet and getting their products for half the price from an unauthorized dealer and then wanting warranty just cause it's the genuine thing, or buying dead products off the internet and trading them in for the 100% ones.