[nnotis]

Hello Head-fiers. I've got some burning questions that I'll try to articulate as well as I can. I greatly appreciate any wisdom any of you can offer up.

I'm looking for a top tier pair of headphones with maximum detail, accuracy, and neutrality. These attributes are especially important to me because I produce and mix audio on headphones. I hate to think that anyone can hear anything in my mixes that I can't. So maximizing detail is critical. I go to great lengths to build 3D sounding environments with every noise/instrument existing in it's own place. So dynamics and pinpoint stereo field placement are also critical. And an accurate depiction of the whole spectrum is key for equalization.

Currently, I have a pair of K1000s. They sound pretty amazing to me, even plugged strait into the balanced outs of a Lavry DA10. I love the detail and accuracy they depict across most of the spectrum. Unfortunately, the bass roll off forces me to keep other headphones around so I can hear frequencies below 40 Hz. I just can't justify building my system around headphones that leave off such a significant piece of the spectrum, no matter how well they handle everything else.

Based on what I've read, the Qualia 010 would be perfect. They've been described as the most detailed headphones, and excel at everything else I value most. But I'll probably never find a pair for sale. That's lead me to look a little more closely at the electrostatic world, since they're generally said to also excel at my preferred attributes.

Should I consider the SR-007/SR-007Mk2s? Some have described them as dark, which makes me wary. Currently, my only experience with dark headphones are the HD600s, which have both insufficient detail and high frequency extension. But others speak of the SR-007's excellent detail and accuracy, especially when paired with one of the great non Stax amps like the KGSS.

How do the SR-007Mk2s compare to other top tier headphones in the areas I've highlighted? In particular, I'm curious to know how they stack up against the Qualias.

Thanks!

 

[smeggy]

I think this is a good question for Elephas as he has all the phones you mention in his collection and should be in a very good position to give you the lowdown. If he doesn't respond in this thread it may be worth you while to shoot him a PM. I know I shouldn't be volunteering other members and I apologize in advance, but he is very generous with info and very helpful.

 

[webbie64]

Great articulation of your thoughts and questions.

Contact Spritzer for the best information on the SR-007 and what's best to drive them to achieve all you want.

I personally found them on the darker side, even through a Stax solid state amp.

I would advocate that if you do go down the SR-007 path you go down it with full commitment to the best amplifier and interconnects to drive them. I recall Spritzer indicating repeatedly he believed there was no amp currently that could fully drive them to deliver their fullest potential (unless he's changed his position on that recently).

But, yes, electrostatics would, to my mind, provide you the best path to achieve all you want to achieve within a headphone/earspeaker and the SR-007, for many, is one of the ideal, if not the ideal, choices.

 

[pabbi1]

Hmmmm - well, regardless of which way you go, you will will still be faced with an amplification issue - KGSS or Blue Hawaii OR ES-1 for the top tier in electrostatic.

For phones, you might also look to HE60, but also difficult to find. The OII will not be as 'dark' when amped properly, from what I have heard across three different sets (and amps).

Back to the HD600, was your experience with a stock cable?

Finally, you also have the very real possibility of mixing with multiple phones, as those of us with various topologies hear different things when using the same source material through our various presentations.

 

[nnotis]

Thanks for the tips. I'll contact those people for further advise.

As for the HD600s, I have a Cardas unbalanced cable. I know they open up more with a balanced cable. But I find them vastly inferior to the SA5000s, which I also have. For me, the noted veil is more like a thick fog. I find precise equalization to be impossible with the HD600s. Stereo field placement and perceived distance are also hopelessly imprecise. It is possible that my pair are out of whack, as it's hard to image them with any amp being more useful for me than the SA5000s and K1000s.

That's an excellent point about using multiple cans. I used four pairs to mix my just completed album (found at nicknotis.com) (I don't feel bad about plugging it because you can download it for free.) I will certainly hold on to both the SA5000s and K1000s even if I get some other pair of super high end cans. They're just too useful.

 

[spritzer]

The HD600 will always be a little toy to me even when fitted with a Cardas cable and driven from a 45 based tube amp. The Senns are designed to present a certain sound and it is the same with the He90 and while many like it, I don't. All of the Stax phones designed after 1975 strive for neutrality, each in their own way and the SR-007 is the culmination of all those designs and experiments.

The SR-007 can indeed be dark when the amp isn't feeding them properly and the cables aren't doing them any favors. A better, more powerful, amp will make them open up but they are always a bit reserved and never upfront. That makes for the best soundstage in any headphone, including the Stax Sigmas with perpendicular drivers. It's small and tightly controlled and above all else it is layered, something no other headphone can do.

 

[krmathis]

Yes, I really think you should!
I have never heard the K1000, and just barely the HD600. But of all the headphones I have heard (RS1, GS1000, HD650, K701, most Stax', ...) the SR-007 stand out as a very clear #1. I just happen to like the SR-007 and SRM-007t combo as well...

Perhaps there are a local Stax dealer in your area, where you can give it a try?

 

[Downrange]

I consider the O2s a reference component that's as good as the source and amp. Pretty high praise, I know, but there it is. I like both the Stax 007T2 and the KGSS, with a preference to the KGSS. The Stax amp is a bit more refined, but not nearly as accurate and dynamic. I can listen into the soundstage better with the KGSS. The Stax amp may be better in some ways, but, in the end, for me it's all about the ability to resolve fine detail.

I don't see how you can go wrong with the O2s. Unless you call having spend lots of money going wrong!

 

[nnotis]

You guys are very encouraging. I want to hear that the O2s are the best I can do, as they're phones that I can actually get. Having looked over the price of of them plus the KGSS, I don't think they're unreasonably expensive. When considering how many thousands one must spend to enter the realm of elite high end audio (in the audiophile or pro audio arena), these seem like a reasonable solution.

I'd still love to hear a comparison between the O2 and Qualias though.

Thanks again.

 

[mingde10467]

You might want to try on a pair before you buy. Some, including myself, find the 007s uncomfortable.

Heightwise, my ears (roughly) measure 3" from the the tip of the earlobe to the center of the topmost edge. The inner space of the Stax touch my ears (top and sides) at some points and I find myself continuously needing to readjust them. Also, the material the earpads are made of is uncomfortable, particularly in warm weather.

Supposedly the Mk. 2 has addressed both of the above issues. To my knowledge, no one posting here about their new Mk. 2s has yet mentioned their comfort vis-a-vis the older model.

The AKG K-1000s, as you know, are a joy since nothing touches your ears.

 

[nnotis]

I agree mingde10467. It's always a good idea to audition headphones first. And no matter how good they sound, if they're not comfortable, they can't be enjoyed.

Having said that, I actually think the SA5000s are more comfortable than the K1000s. If I move my head around too much, the K1000s are liable to fall off. Maybe my head is just too small.

I've tried to contact Experience audio in Seattle. Their web site says they carry Stax. They haven't returned my email yet though. Has anyone had noteworthy dealings with that place? Is there any other place in Seattle I should contact for O2 auditioning?

 

[spritzer]

You should always audition if you can but it's sadly not often possible.

All Stax headphones are comfortable but the pads on the SR-007 Mk1 are a bit too small on the inside but this was remedied with the Mk2. The clamping force of the SR-007 is easy to adjust by bending the metal arc so they are comfy, even for a man like me with a melon for a head.

 

[catscratch]

If Stax really does strive to make its headphones as neutral as possible, then why is the current Stax range so very very not neutral? I can't comment on the O2, but I've heard everything else in the current Stax lineup and all of it is significantly more colored than the HD600. The Lamdas have an upper midrange peak that destroys their tonality, while the SR-001/003 have a severely rolled-off treble that mutes texture and makes them overly warm. The HD600 at least gets tone and tembre right, and its raw balance between bass/mid/high is as good as a headphone gets in the price range. It definitely does not have enough detail, and there is a certain grain to its sound, not to mention loose and sloppy bass, but drive it balanced, and all of that goes away. The balanced HD650 is even better, though less neutral. I hate the single-ended HD650 but in push-pull mode it's easily one of the best headphones I've ever heard.

Sorry to go off on a rant like that, but the whole "Stax/electrostatic = neutral" thing seriously conflicts with my experiences. I'm not chiming in to threadcrap, just to offer a different perspective.

I think you should audition whatever you're intending to buy beforehand, especially if you will be custom-ordering components with long build times. There's nothing more frustrating than waiting 6 months for an expensive ES amp only to find that it isn't as good as you thought and that it doesn't get along well with the rest of your gear... or that it arrives broken because the post office is run by baboons.

I have heard the Qualia, and while I think that sonically it will be very good for your purposes, I wouldn't recommend buying one. The Qualia needs an absolutely perfect fit in order to sound good, which is why it came in 3 sizes originally. Sony would mail you a little head measurement thing, which you would then mail back with your head size all measured out, whereupon Sony would send you the right sized headphones insuring that you get as good a fit as you possibly can. So, when you're buying second hand without having the chance to wear the pair for yourself, you're pretty much gambling on whether or not the seller has the same fit requirement as you do. Also, the Qualia does have issues with tone and tembre - it's very neutral and its tonal balance is dead even, but instruments have a weird artificial coloration that is very difficult to describe but is very audibly there. If tone is a priority, look elsewhere.

I find the high-end headphone market to be very frustrating. Which is why I will again say: audition stuff beforehand, especially if you already have a lot of experience with high-end sound, and are looking for something very specific out of a headphone.

P.S. why not nearfield monitors? If you're spending serious money, might as well go all the way.

[Edit: Audition the 4070 if you can find it. It's made for monitoring to begin with, as opposed to the O2, so it may suit your needs better. It's certainly described as being brighter/more neutral]

 

[spritzer]

With Stax it always boils down to the amp and the ancient Lambda frame. Since I've heard or own almost every Stax model ever made its easy to hear that they have been striving towards neutrality for about 30 years. They are neutral as in they present as little of their own sound as possible as a texture on what the reproduce. This is something the HD600 doesn't come close to doing and the 650 even less so. I'm fully aware of the limitations of the Lambda chassis but the 404 driver is very advanced and once freed of the Lambda housing shines and has very little character. Stax is forced to have cheaper headphones now then 15 years ago and they can do that by using the Lambda chassis even if it isn't that good. It's true that they have a midrange hump, are slightly diffused and the bass is a bit boomy but producing a 250$ electrostatic headphone by such a small company is an astounding accomplishment.

The 4070 is almost clinically neutral but sacrifices imaging and ultimate resolution to be closed. It was designed as a monitor for NPK (or whatever their name is) and does that job with aplomb. I'd never pick it over the SR-007 but it is a great headphone for its purpose.

 

[nnotis]

I very much appreciate your perspective catscratch. You've highlighted concerns I have about the Qualias, even if I could find them. And you've demonstrated the interpretational range people can have regarding headphone signatures. But believe it or not, I find the discussions here to be more revealing than those on pro forums. Just go read about monitors on gearslutz. There's virtually zero consensus about any attribute of any monitor. It's really amazing. Here, there are usually specific things that lovers and haters of a given pair of phones can agree on. For example, even the SA5000 haters acknowledge that they're very detailed for the price.

Why don't I just get some nearfield monitors? For the money I'm looking to spend, I could get some first rate monitors. There are three reasons why I don't. First, I'd have to spend a whole lot of additional time and money on room acoustics. I love using the wacky room reflections in my apartment for recording purposes, but they're terrible for monitoring. If I owned my own place, I could consider covering every wall with sound dispersing tiles, but I'm a renter. Doing so would be too much commitment to the apartment. Second, I live with my wife, and have neighbors on the other side of some walls. I absolutely hate being distracted by the possibility of bothering someone else, especially the Mrs. With headphones, I can mix anytime, and listen to anything without bothering anyone. Third, I think there are some things that headphones are excellent at revealing. Last year I had an ep professionally mastered. I can't remember what monitors were used. But my mixes sounded amazing. And those monitors certainly exposed some spectral problems that the HD600s couldn't resolve. But even as veiled as the HD600s are, I was able to hear some noise floor issues that were invisible with the monitors. Ultimately, I need to do a lot more comparing with a lot of different monitors before I should make concrete statements. But I can say that I've been mixing with headphones for 12 years. I think my brain is pretty adjusted to working with them.

Finally, I will audition the 4070s if I can. But I expect that they won't separate sounds as well as I want, even if they're neutral. To me, with my setup, it's the terrific separation of sounds that allows me to hear more with the K1000s than the SA5000s. So I end up using them more even though they have crappy bass extension. From what I've read, the O2s are more detailed and better at sound separation than any other Stax. But who knows, maybe I'll disagree with the Stax thread posters.