[DoomForce]

What do you guys think, is the audigy 2 zs a good upgrade (from onboard), or is it a waste of money? I'll be upgrading to a new mobo in a few months so i wonder if I'll be wasting my money, with the new Intel HD chipsets on the way. I dont want to buy a card now and leave it behind when i get a new mobo..

Will be a worthy purchase, an Audigy 2 zs? Or maybe i should buythe new live 24bit which is much cheaper (how good is the quality of this card?)?

Note that i dont have any extreme needs (like recording etc.), i just want a good card to go with my logitech 5.1.

 

[mavis]

Quote:

Originally Posted by DoomForce What do you guys think, is the audigy 2 zs a good upgrade (from onboard), or is it a waste of money? I'll be upgrading to a new mobo in a few months so i wonder if I'll be wasting my money, with the new Intel HD chipsets on the way. I dont want to buy a card now and leave it behind when i get a new mobo.. Will be a worthy purchase, an Audigy 2 zs? Or maybe i should buythe new live 24bit which is much cheaper (how good is the quality of this card?)? Note that i dont have any extreme needs (like recording etc.), i just want a good card to go with my logitech 5.1.

While I'm probably not the best person to comment on SQ, etc, I can say that my Audigy 2ZS works very well for what I use it for the most: games.

 

[Eagle_Driver]

Quote:

Originally Posted by DoomForce What do you guys think, is the audigy 2 zs a good upgrade (from onboard), or is it a waste of money? I'll be upgrading to a new mobo in a few months so i wonder if I'll be wasting my money, with the new Intel HD chipsets on the way. I dont want to buy a card now and leave it behind when i get a new mobo.. Will be a worthy purchase, an Audigy 2 zs? Or maybe i should buythe new live 24bit which is much cheaper (how good is the quality of this card?)? Note that i dont have any extreme needs (like recording etc.), i just want a good card to go with my logitech 5.1.

The Audigy2 ZS is not the best card for music (in fact, some other cards sound better for music than the A2 ZS at the same price point) - but it's one of the best for gaming.

On the other hand, the SB Live! 24-bit is almost as bad as onboard (CPU consumption-wise). The Live! 24-bit has no dedicated hardware DSP, so all 3D API support (such as DirectSound3D and EAX HD) must use the PC's main CPU and the software drivers for that card to emulate such support.

Both cards resample 44.1kHz audio to 48kHz - the A2 ZS in hardware (with poor results due to Creative's choice in the hardware-based resampling alogarithm), the Live! 24-bit in the software drivers specific to that card.

Lastly, the DAC used in the Live! 24-bit is significantly worse than that of the A2 ZS.

Hope this helps - even a little.

 

[Guust-Fi]

If you play alot of games, I believe there is no better choice than the audigy 2 ZS.

 

[fr4c]

or spend $25 on a AV-710.

 

[maarek99]

Audigy 2 doesn't sound half as bad as people think.

 

[DoomForce]

Okay, got it, sb live is a bad choice i suppose.

Comparing the Audigy 2 ZS with the upcoming Intel HD audio, is the latter going to be better?
As i said, i don't want to give money to a card that i will leave behind in a few months...
(And yeah, i want the card more for games and less for music--i don't own any uber expensive speakers

)

 

[gloco]

I had an Audigy 2 card and upgraded to a Echo MIA soundcard and the difference was staggering. Gun shots had more body and very lively, music was cleaner, my audio playback just had more authority. I even did a quick test, popping my Audigy 2 back in and playing Max Payne, gun shots sounded very ping pongy with it. My attitude at that point was to forget multi channel and be happy to own a soundcard that reproduces music and gaming with more zest. Redbook playback took on a whole new dimension and i found myself listening to music a lot more on my pc with my Echo card.

 

[sgrossklass]

Quote:

Originally Posted by DoomForce Comparing the Audigy 2 ZS with the upcoming Intel HD audio, is the latter going to be better?

Unlikely. The output specs for HD Audio codecs like Realtek's ALC880 are worse than those even for ordinary I2S codecs (e.g. THD+N, -86 dB vs. -91 dB on the CS4341(A) used on the cheapo Gainward 7.1 thingy related to the AV-710; the 2ZS uses rather good converters but the output stage isn't that great IIRC), and it doesn't look like there is any hardware 3D audio acceleration. So overall the 2ZS would be the better deal.

 

[wali]

Audigy2 is a great card for what is designed for, games and DVDs. For music playback it is ok.

Quote:

...Gun shots had more body and very lively...

That has to be the silliest argument I have ever read in favor of a soundcard--and I have read many.

 

[gloco]

Quote:

Originally Posted by wali Audigy2 is a great card for what is designed for, games and DVDs. For music playback it is ok. That has to be the silliest argument I have ever read in favor of a soundcard--and I have read many.

Are you kidding? Have you ever compared an Audigy 2 card to an Echo mia card? I thought so, because i did. The differences are very apparent. Before you claim my fact is a silly argument, go buy a mia card and do a comparison with Max Payne and other such titles.

By the way, how the hell is the Audigy 2 great for gaming and dvd's, but its playback is just "ok." Wouldn't audio quality between games, dvd's and redbook playback go hand and hand?

It's mighty obvious that it's a lousy soundcard but people fall all over themselves over it because it has eax and it's popular. I'm glad i switched to my echo card, it makes my gaming that much more enjoyable.

 

[wali]

Quote:

Originally Posted by gloco Are you kidding? Have you ever compared an Audigy 2 card to an Echo mia card? I thought so, because i did. The differences are very apparent. Before you claim my fact is a silly argument, go buy a mia card and do a comparison with Max Payne and other such titles.

I couldn't stop laughing at your sentence ..Gun shots had more body and very lively.... and i was referring to this sentence as silly not comparison of Audigy2 and mia.

Quote:

By the way, how the hell is the Audigy 2 great for gaming and dvd's, but its playback is just "ok." Wouldn't audio quality between games, dvd's and redbook playback go hand and hand?

No!

Never ever compare game audio with music. Game audio is highly compressed and more focused on positional 3D audio rather than 'fidelity'. Audigy2 beats every other card in gaming for a simple reason--it processes the audio in its own audio chip rather than taking CPU resources. Audigy2 also has EAX which is a must for video games these days (environmental ambiance and 3D positional audio)..

Audigy2 decodes Dolby Digital 5.1 in hardware which provides excellent DVD playback, and also Audigy2 is the only consumer card which can play DVD-Audio.

Most Mp3s will sound the same in Audigy2 as they did in any 'flavor of the month card' popular in this forum. Only when it comes to CD quality music, since Audigy2 resample 44.1kh into 48kh as well as its lousy drivers/board components that it suffers.

Quote:

It's mighty obvious that it's a lousy soundcard but people fall all over themselves over it because it has eax and it's popular. I'm glad i switched to my echo card, it makes my gaming that much more enjoyable.

The reason you say Audigy2 sucks is not because you know exactly the reason(s) but just because you have read it a lot of times in this forum or other places. Yur decision seems to be based more on the "bash creative" fan-boy attitude rather than rational and objective reasoning...


Someone should prepare a blind test between these different cards and onboard audio-- I guarantee that most people in here won't be able to distinguish between onboard sound let alone Audigy2 and EMU line... don't take my word for it, someone should setup this test.

 

[Asmo]

Quote:

Originally Posted by wali I couldn't stop laughing at your sentence ..Gun shots had more body and very lively.... and i was referring to this sentence as silly not comparison of Audigy2 and mia. No! Never ever compare game audio with music. Game audio is highly compressed and more focused on positional 3D audio rather than 'fidelity'. Audigy2 beats every other card in gaming for a simple reason--it processes the audio in its own audio chip rather than taking CPU resources. Audigy2 also has EAX which is a must for video games these days (environmental ambiance and 3D positional audio).. Audigy2 decodes Dolby Digital 5.1 in hardware which provides excellent DVD playback, and also Audigy2 is the only consumer card which can play DVD-Audio. Most Mp3s will sound the same in Audigy2 as they did in any 'flavor of the month card' popular in this forum. Only when it comes to CD quality music, since Audigy2 resample 44.1kh into 48kh as well as its lousy drivers/board components that it suffers. The reason you say Audigy2 sucks is not because you know exactly the reason(s) but just because you have read it a lot of times in this forum or other places. Yur decision seems to be based more on the "bash creative" fan-boy attitude rather than rational and objective reasoning... Someone should prepare a blind test between these different cards and onboard audio-- I guarantee that most people in here won't be able to distinguish between onboard sound let alone Audigy2 and EMU line... don't take my word for it, someone should setup this test.

For music? Yes, definetly on a decent headphone or speaker setup you can hear the difference. (Yes, I have done it with my 2 roomates just recently over xmas holidays to prove that there is a difference in soundcards [we were having this same arugment]) (audigy2, onboard realtek, m-audio audiophile USB, emu-1212m & emu0404), the only huge difference the EMU cards over the rest.

Games & DVDS? I highly doubt it.

 

[gloco]

Quote:

Originally Posted by wali I couldn't stop laughing at your sentence ..Gun shots had more body and very lively.... and i was referring to this sentence as silly not comparison of Audigy2 and mia.

First and foremost: DON'T EVER ASSUME ANYTHING ABOUT ANYONE ON HEAD-FI.

You're making some very blanket (and false statements) here. I owned several creative cards and even thought the Audigy 2 was a nice card...until i purchased my echo card. Hell, i remember my Awe32 card, i always redbook playbook on that was better than my live value! card.

How can my comparison that gun shots in Max Payne "had more body and very lively" be so amusing when i found that to be the case? I find it amusing that anyone who has not heard both cards to dispute it.


Quote:

Originally Posted by wali The reason you say Audigy2 sucks is not because you know exactly the reason(s) but just because you have read it a lot of times in this forum or other places. Yur decision seems to be based more on the "bash creative" fan-boy attitude rather than rational and objective reasoning...

Where are you getting this reason from? Did you happen to call my mother and ask her? My decision is based on FACT, not heresay, i don't sit on the toilet all day long reading about how Creative cards suck. Nor do i surf the web looking for such information. My ears did everything for me. By the way, i'm a proud owner of a njbs and a zen micro, both mp3 players built by Creative that i think sound quite fine. You may want to reconsider making assumptions about head-fiers, we're quite a rabid bunch.

Quote:

Originally Posted by wali Someone should prepare a blind test between these different cards and onboard audio-- I guarantee that most people in here won't be able to distinguish between onboard sound let alone Audigy2 and EMU line... don't take my word for it, someone should setup this test.

Heh, you don't when to stop, do you? Sure, why don't you put your foot where your mouth is and buy a echo mia card and write up a nice comparison, who better than you? I have a question for you, do you think there is no difference between, let's say a $50 discman and my Music Hall cd-25? Inquiring minds want to know

...and now, time for a rant:

Maybe i should go into every review (which are always subjective right?) and tell that reviewer that their comments are laughable, that they are full of ****. Sure, it may be functional, but it's not the last word in audio playback...especially for games.

Thanks for your opinions, because that's all they are to me. I know what my ears tell me everytime i fire up a game or a cd....sonic bliss.

 

[Mr.Radar]

Quote:

Originally Posted by wali Most Mp3s will sound the same in Audigy2 as they did in any 'flavor of the month card' popular in this forum. Only when it comes to CD quality music, since Audigy2 resample 44.1kh into 48kh as well as its lousy drivers/board components that it suffers.

This is completely wrong. Have you ever done any ABX blind testing with LAME-encoded 320kbps MP3's? It'd probably take a lot of critical listening on "problem" tracks for you to be able to reliably tell the difference between it and a WAV copy of the same track. Just because it's lossy doesn't mean it can't sound good too. Not that I'm endorsing lossy compression (my codec of choice is FLAC (Free Lossless Audio Compression) but I'm saying don't imediately dismiss it just because it's lossy. Also, the resampling affects MP3s sourced from CDs as well.

Quote:

Someone should prepare a blind test between these different cards and onboard audio-- I guarantee that most people in here won't be able to distinguish between onboard sound let alone Audigy2 and EMU line... don't take my word for it, someone should setup this test.

I just tried connecting both my nVidia SoundStorm and EMU 0404 to a RadioShack source selector switch. I have the digital output of the SoundStorm running into my EMU 0404 so I can switch between them without having to stop the music. I configured Foobar to for optimal quality on the SoundStorm (48 KHz SSRC resampling, 16-bit fixed w/ dithering). I matched the volume as closely as I could to remove that as a factor. Not doing blind-testing, but quick AB'ing SoundStorm comes surprisngly close to my EMU 0404, however SoundStorm sounds more dull with muddier bass and slightly muffled highs, and also less transparency and details. This is very apparent on some tracks but hardly noticeable on others. I'd consider this maybe a 10% improvement on tracks where it's very noticable and a 1% difference on tracks where it isn't. However, when you consider that with SoundStorm you're limited to 16/48 [DVD-V quality] while with the EMU you can do from 16/44.1 [CD Quality] to 24/192 [highest DVD-A quality] without resampling and that it comes with much more flexible drivers and a better ADC the 0404 is still not that bad of a deal. Also, the nVidia ASIO was flaking out on me during the comparison, even though my system is not overclocked and I have a heatsink on the MCP-T Southbridge chip (which handles audio processing).