[backwardsname]

I recently bought a whole new setup -- my first set-up that could be reasonably described as "serious" (though far from what many here have, I'm sure). I've got a pair of Denon D2000s, and the HeadRoom Micro Amp/DAC stack. Going from a simple unamped pair of ATH-ES7s to this has been pretty mind-blowing, but I'm considering picking up a pair of HD650s for home listening (I'd keep the D2000s for portable listening with my NuForce Icon Mobile).

As much as I love what I have, I often find myself just on the edge of a truly convincing soundstage. Sparely arranged acoustic music often sounds most convincingly as though it's coming from around me, but beyond that, most music sound expansive, but my ears aren't exactly "fooled" into thinking it's not coming from headphones.

Now, I love the way the D2000s are balanced -- the response in every range is wonderful and nothing sticks out unpleasantly, sibilance is extremely rare, bass is lush and detailed, etc. Overall I'd say the sound is slightly on the warm side of neutral, but that's what I like. Like many, I find really bright headphones to be fatiguing, and I like to be able to listen for 6+ hours in a sitting.

So, basically, I'm looking for a sound similar to the D2000s, but with a more expansive, convincing soundstage, as well as greater detail and articulation generally, and a somewhat quicker headphone.

I'm just a little hesitant because I wonder how much of a difference there would really be between my D2000s and the HD650s. I could always save the money for a better amp, after all.

On the other hand, I enjoy plugging in two sets of headphones to the amp and rocking out with friends (my boss owns a pair of D5000s and we do this regularly), so it would be nice to have two sets of high-end phones for guest listeners.

Thoughts?

 

[Sebhelyesfarku]

The HD 650s don't have particularly expansive soundstage, quite average rather. Neither are quick.

 

[plonter]

if you like the bass quantity of the denons you will be disappointed from the senns. they are not bass monsters like the denons are...and the sound is more thin IMO (they are open, and the denons are closed). Don't know about the D2000 but this is coming from a direct comparisson between the HD650 and the D5000, i own them both.


if you are looking for more balanced and neutral sound, the HD650 may be a good way to go though.. again, IMO.

 

[backwardsname]

Quote:

Originally Posted by plonter /img/forum/go_quote.gif if you like the bass quantity of the denons you will be disappointed from the senns. they are not bass monsters like the denons are...and the sound is more thin IMO (they are open, and the denons are closed). Don't know about the D2000 but this is coming from a direct comparisson between the HD650 and the D5000, i own them both. if you are looking for more balanced and neutral sound, the HD650 may be a good way to go though.. again, IMO.

Comparing the D2000s to the D5000s (the pair my boss owns), I'd say the D2000 is a significantly more neutral-sounding phone, and not nearly as bass heavy, though the bass response is still pretty damn awesome. However, I have no frame of comparison for what the Senns do.

However, if they don't have a really great soundstage, and aren't any quicker than the D2000s, then I'm not really interested.

Anyone else wanna corroborate or oppose Sebhelyesfarku's opinion on the HD650s?

Also, if not the 650s, is there something else around $350 that I could pick up that would be an improvement on the D2000s in terms of articulation, soundstage, and speed? While I like the balancing of the D2000s, I might be willing to trade some of the warmth in exchange for the other features I mentioned.

 

[Ilovebeef]

Quote:

Originally Posted by plonter /img/forum/go_quote.gif if you are looking for more balanced and neutral sound, the HD650 may be a good way to go though.. again, IMO.

But also in your opinion the HD650s aren't dark/warm enough.

 

[plonter]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ilovebeef /img/forum/go_quote.gif But also in your opinion the HD650s aren't dark/warm enough.

yes...here is my quote again: "if you are looking for more BALANCED and NEUTRAL sound, the HD650 may be a good way to go though.. again, IMO"

i much prefer the denon bass heavy presentation.

 

[Towert7]

From what I have heard, the Denon's add a coloration to the music. I would say the senn house sound is much more in line with neutral, although their HD650 is one of their 'warmest' sounding ones (but still neutral'ish). It is a very smooth headphone, all things considered. Not the slightest bit of sibilance.

The soundstage is middle of the road. Certainly going to trounce most grados, and is more believable than the mid range AKG's (IMO). Probably won't be much better then the denon's. If you want a better soundstage, you're going to need to start improving your source components (significantly) as well as move up to the more high end headphones.

The HD650 are also not what I would call a fast headphone.

Given the choice though, I'd pick the HD650 over the Denon any day. I prefer the Senn signature.

 

[backwardsname]

So basically I need to step up to a higher price-point, or purchase a better amp for what I'm looking for?

Edit: What about the K701/K702?

 

[Towert7]

Quote:

Originally Posted by backwardsname /img/forum/go_quote.gif So basically I need to step up to a higher price-point, or purchase a better amp for what I'm looking for? Edit: What about the K701/K702?

Well, better source equipment. That includes the source and the amp.

It truly is a case of garbage in, garbage out.

 

[carledwards]

The 650 is rather picky about amps. Not sure your current gear would be a good match. If you have the option of trying them and returning if you don't like them, it would be a worthwhile experiement, though.

 

[priest]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sebhelyesfarku /img/forum/go_quote.gif The HD 650s don't have particularly expansive soundstage, quite average rather. Neither are quick.

Quote:

Originally Posted by backwardsname /img/forum/go_quote.gif However, if they don't have a really great soundstage, and aren't any quicker than the D2000s, then I'm not really interested. Anyone else wanna corroborate or oppose Sebhelyesfarku's opinion on the HD650s?

I'll do the former.

 

[Feather225]

I prefer hd650 over D7k (never tried d5 d2..)~ with a nice powerful tube amp, HD650 truly performs~

 

[backwardsname]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Towert7 /img/forum/go_quote.gif Well, better source equipment. That includes the source and the amp. It truly is a case of garbage in, garbage out.

When people say source, do they refer to the DAC or the actual mp3 file itself?

In any case, I think I have decided to upgrade from the HeadRoom Micro Amp and Micro DAC stack to the HeadRoom Desktop Amp/DAC. I know I could look around more for components, but I was so thoroughly satisfied with the HR experience I figure I'll go back to them.

However, I've decided to be irresponsible and still grab a pair of open headphones (though for less than the HD650s). What might fit my earlier description? I figure I can always EQ if I don't like the tonal balance, so what would offer a big, open, expansive sound?

Maybe Beyerdynamic DT 990s (or the 990 Pro? I'm not sure what the difference is)? AKG 701s? What would be a good open headphone experience that would offer a different experience from the D2000s, while still sounding great? I like the idea of having variety.

 

[1Time]

They nearly always are referring to the source hardware, for example, a sound card.

For the actual mp3, for example, I refer to it as the source media.

I suggest being patient with your hardware selection.

Quote:

Originally Posted by backwardsname /img/forum/go_quote.gif When people say source, do they refer to the DAC or the actual mp3 file itself?

 

[backwardsname]

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1Time /img/forum/go_quote.gif They nearly always are referring to the source hardware, for example, a sound card. For the actual mp3, for example, I refer to it as the source media. I suggest being patient with your hardware selection.

Gotcha. Well, yes, I do plan on upgrading the source in that case, since I'm upgrading the DAC.

I may be impatient compared to some, but I've read some reviews of the desktop Amp/DAC unit from Headroom that are all quite glowing (and seem to agree that it's a worthwhile upgrade from the Micro stack), and as I say -- the whole experience I had with them was great, including the product, so I figure I'll be quite happy with the product. I also don't plan on doing tube amps anywhere in the near future, so that narrows my options substantially.