short lifespan of CD-R's?

[NotJeffBuckley]

Quote:

Originally Posted by RogerWilco I read somewhere on the net where the riaa has no control over people coping analog.So what they were going to propose was Technology that erases a burned disk after it is played for the first time.If something like this were to be passed somewhere in the furure that would make all burned cd's obsolete?

That's alarmist nonsense. It wouldn't work for a lot of reasons.

 

[RogerWilco]

Quote:

Originally Posted by NotJeffBuckley That's alarmist nonsense. It wouldn't work for a lot of reasons.

I am just telling you what i had read.I don't believe something like this could ever happen either---

 

[NotJeffBuckley]

Quote:

Originally Posted by RogerWilco I am just telling you what i had read.I don't believe something like this could ever happen either---

Oh, I know - I wasn't calling you an alarmist, just letting you know that it's not worth consideration. Look at the public outcry and class-action liabilities from the Sony DRM rootkit, and couple that sort of sentiment (magnified immensely because of "where my music go?!") with the fact that the RIAA is already publicly viewed as a bunch of crooks, and you can see why they'd never successfully push for it.

Of course, they've got a ****-ton of lobbyists in Congress, so it could be made legally protected... It's ridiculous, but right now a movie pirate gets more mandatory jailtime in a federal pen than a child molester. Talk about losing sight of reality, eh?

 

[RogerWilco]

It is getting damn crazy.I tried to do a search to find the article again and i could not believe everything i found and read that they are trying to pass through congress.

 

[andrew3199]

I went to "Walmart" to pick up some Verbatim Datalifeplus CDR's, they were out! so not to have too much of A wasted jorney I picked up A 25 pack of Maxell CD-R Music Pro (Made In Japan) are they any good.?

 

[iSleipnir]

This is exactly why I use CD-R's for temporary storage only.

 

[gethomas]

See this from the TDK web site:
http://www.cd-info.com/CDIC/Technolo...Media/TDK.html

I am not worried if they hold up for 70 years.

Glenn

 

[Cyrix_2k]

About the hardrive side of this... I have NEVER seen a drive go up due to bad bearings. Infact, I've had one drive of fifty or so die on me over a 10 year or so span. That drive was a 40gb Maxtor Diamondmax9 IIRC. I still have a maxtor 1.5gb HDD from '95 that works great. I also have several 80mb drives that still work.

As for CD-R's, I tend to scratch them up more than anything. I do have several CD-R's that are around 8 years old and still work fine.

If you're going to back anything valuable up, burn more than one copy so if one goes bad, you can always get the data from the other copy(s) and burn even more copies.

 

[Eagle_Driver]

Quote:

Originally Posted by halcyon Currently phtalo/gold manufacturers are Mitsui's CD-R process holder MAM (it's MAM-A and MAM-E subsidiaries). They manufacture an Archival Gold phthalocyanine disc rated for 300 years archival life by themselves. This is the best disc they manufacture, with the highest QA (best specimens from each manufacture batch). The 300 year Archive gold is this: http://store.mam-a-store.com/40191-100.html The other above linked disc (Mitsui 650 MB archival) is the second best MAM-A has to offer. I've heard that it comes from the same manufacture line as the Archival Gold 300 years discs, but with less stringent QA. I have no 100% verification for this particular piece of information (about QA differences).

Actually, your link is for the "Standard" MAM-A Gold CD-R discs. The other link above yours is for the Archive Gold CD-R's, which comes from the same manufacture line as the "standard" Gold CD-R's - but with much more stringent quality control testing. MAM-A picks out the best discs from the "standard" Gold CD-R lot, then subjects those discs to even more rigorous testing.

Quote:

Originally Posted by halcyon Now, as to the recommendations given above: TY, they use cyanine on their CD-R. It is not stable as shown by the NIST study. Not recommended. As for Verbatim, they use an Azo variant and while more stable towards humidity and temp than cyanine, it's not as stable towards EMR. Not recommended. Neither material (or manufacturer) is as such recommended for archival purposes (for CD-R). I certainly wouldn't trust the aformentioned CD-R discs (TY/MCC) with my data.

Though T-Y CD-R's use metallised cyanine (which is more robust than plain cyanine alone), it still suffers from many of the same problems as other cyanine-based CD-R's.

This lead me to recommend the EXPENSIVE MAM-A Gold and Archive Gold CD-R's for my important files and music. (In fact, I have just placed an order for two 25-packs of the Archive Gold.)

 

[pedxing]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cyrix_2k About the hardrive side of this... I have NEVER seen a drive go up due to bad bearings. Infact, I've had one drive of fifty or so die on me over a 10 year or so span. That drive was a 40gb Maxtor Diamondmax9 IIRC. I still have a maxtor 1.5gb HDD from '95 that works great. I also have several 80mb drives that still work.

I also concur that the author over exagerrated the problems with bad bearings. I have only encountered a half-a-dozen drives that died from bad bearings.

From all the drives I have owned, most of them have died when the number of bad sectors grew too large and too quickly.

While fixing other people's computer, I also have seen other causes of drive failure from static electricity, over heating, power failure, thermal breakdown, and shock.

I thought buying TY was considered to be a good safety measure. Looks like I will have to invest some more money into overly priced CD-Rs. It might be just cheaper for me to buy a big external drive and store it somewhere else safe.

 

[andrew3199]

Quote:

Originally Posted by replytoken Markl hit the top three in my book. I would like to add Mitsui Silver to the list as well. A Mitsui rep told me that she thought the Silver line had less problems being read by CD drives than the Gold line. Aso, Maxell CD-R Pro (only the Pro line) used to use Taiyo Yuden CD as their supplier. I do not know if they still do at this time. This is a very complex issue and the article quoting the IBM engineer only touched upon a few of what are a whole host of factors that should be considered.

Picked up some Maxell CD-R from Walmart A few days ago, I scaned them and it turns out they are indeed made by Taiyo Yuden in Japan.

 

[Eagle_Driver]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eagle_Driver Though T-Y CD-R's use metallised cyanine (which is more robust than plain cyanine alone), it still suffers from many of the same problems as other cyanine-based CD-R's. This lead me to recommend the EXPENSIVE MAM-A Gold and Archive Gold CD-R's for my important files and music. (In fact, I have just placed an order for two 25-packs of the Archive Gold.)

I would also like to add to that:

Some phthalocyanine-based CD-R's are even less stable than T-Y's metallised cyanine-based CD-R's, due mostly to their poor quality control. (CMC Magnetics from Taiwan and Moser Baer from India are two examples of phthalocyanine-based CD-R manufacturers with either erratic or poor quality control.)

And I can't wait until tomorrow afternoon to receive those MAM-A CD-R's. (Yes, I am that anxious!)

 

[andrew3199]

Just did A test to satisfy myself, I burned A CD form my ITunes Library on to A TDK music CDR disc
(CD-RW : no
CD-R medium : CMC Magnetics Corporation
Short Strategy Type, e.g. Phthalocyanine)
I used A 4x burn speed.
Immediately after burning I tried to copy the burned disk using EAC and got this on track 3
(Suspicious position 0:15:44
Missing samples
Peak level 0.0 %
Track quality 99.4 %
Copy finished) The CDR was brand new?.

 

[Eagle_Driver]

Quote:

Originally Posted by halcyon /img/forum/go_quote.gif 4. Silver vs. Gold for compatibility vs storage Cyanine and azo are more compatible for burning. Silver has higher reflectivity and offers higher compatibility for reading. HOWEVER, all of those offer WORSE longevity for storage than phthalocyanine on gold. Pick your poison. If you know you can burn good quality burns with phthalo/gold discs, then they are the best option for long-term stable storage.

This hardly holds true any more. The accelerated aging tests for longevity compared phthalocyanine on gold with phthalocyanine on silver, plain (non-metal, non-stabilized) cyanine and plain (non-metal) azo dyes. (Nobody - not even Taiyo Yuden - uses such old non-stabilized cyanine or azo dyes any more; T-Y uses a super-stabilized version of cyanine called "Super Cyanine.") And even phthalocyanine on gold is no guarantee of superior longevity, even when properly written and stored: The dye and manufacturing quality may be substandard on many such discs - and that's not to mention that MAM-E is now defunct, and MAM-A is now getting much of its gold CD-R stock from second- and third-rate outside manufacturers.

 

[mjb]

the first thread i ever started here on head-fi, is back after over a year of rest! sorry... carry on