[Assorted]

I do not think there is much shill activity in the headphone/amp section of Head-fi. There is much more of this kind of thing going on in various hi-fi/speaker forums which I shouldn't mention, but I feel the hype is created more by "newbies" who echo what high profile reviewers say about the product, except in highly inflated "impressions" which use iPods as reference.

 

[dazzer1975]

The op is spot on, there are a number of people who seek to review in an effort to ingratiate themselves with the manufacturers so as to get free amps, review amps, inside info etc etc and the associated kudos they think comes with this affair.

However, if you are critical enough you can generally spot those who give accurate reviews and also receive certain encouragements from manufacturers. These are the people who will naturally receive the kudos and respect that being fair and balanced gives.

There is a deep dark underbelly on head-fi of those who scratch backs... which is fine, IF, the site doesn't just turn into one huge advertisement and retains its objectivity and independence.

 

[Assorted]

Quote:

Originally Posted by dazzer1975 /img/forum/go_quote.gif The op is spot on, there are a number of people who seek to review in an effort to ingratiate themselves with the manufacturers so as to get free amps, review amps, inside info etc etc and the associated kudos they think comes with this affair. However, if you are critical enough you can generally spot those who give accurate reviews and also receive certain encouragements from manufacturers. These are the people who will naturally receive the kudos and respect that being fair and balanced gives. There is a deep dark underbelly on head-fi of those who scratch backs... which is fine, IF, the site doesn't just turn into one huge advertisement and retains its objectivity and independence.

I'm sorry, I don't intend to aggravate anybody, but I would like to see anything to support your claims.

Who said anything about getting free review samples after giving consistent praise to the same manufacturer? It's bad publicity to deny samples after a bad review, and even worse to send samples to an obvious fanboy.

The only thing remotely close to a "dark underbelly" I've seen, are topics regarding our premium sponsors being deleted, some in the actual sponsored forums, and some rumors of certain people being "in bed" with the sponsors, but I hardly see what any of it has to do with the objectivity of the reviews being compromised. There are many reviews/impressions that give a negative rating to the product in question, and some by highly profilic reviewers themselves. It isn't as if we have a homogenous opinion at Head fi, and we get to choose who's reviews we agree with.

The only extreme I see is from newbies who buy a D2 after reading it up for 2 hours and regurgitate the previous comments in their impression, and from long time members who historically support certain products/manufacturers. We all know who they are, and I believe that they contribute more to the FOTM than any shills out there (if there are any).

 

[nikongod]

To disagree, Shill implies payment of some type be it money or goods. I would agree that it is more fanboyism, and you are just as apt to find it here as anywhere. What does make this forum unique is that there are MAJOR options and differences, and it is easier to see.

The amps which dont need pushing are the mass-market ones. More boostaroo amps were probably sold in a year than many of our smaller MFR's ever will. Its also worth note that excluding "fanboy wars" there are a proportional number of reccomenders for any brand of amp.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Assorted /img/forum/go_quote.gif ... and from long time members who historically support certain products/manufacturers. We all know who they are, and I believe that they contribute more to the FOTM than any shills out there (if there are any).

Im not sure if you meant that newbies or old-timers contribute more to FOTM. I would argue that its more newby driven onto the old-timers. The old timers largely support well established products. Generally people get their gear and go, or upgrade (at least slowly) to a certain point. The reviews to watch out for are the "got my gerar and went" ones, and these are the ones that start FOTM trends. With no basis for comparason, the best amp/headphone they own is the best they have ever heard... and they say the best they have ever heard.

 

[fordgtlover]

Quote:

Originally Posted by RedSky0 /img/forum/go_quote.gif snip Frankly, I think it's the onus of whoever's taking on opinions/requesting help to critically evaluate someone's view and to seek or search for alternate points of view. If somebody says X is a good choice and don't provide any justification, then that opinion may be worth exploring but by itself should not be perceieved as credulous anyway. Hell it's not just shills you should be concerned about, it's the people who perpetuate hearsay and don't acknowledge it for what it is and the ones who get sucked into FOTMishness. snip

Agree.

Personally, I think a bit much is made of the whole shill thing. Whether there are people here who receive some benefits for creating a buzz around a particular product, I don't know.

It is difficult for many reasons to get what might be called an independant review of any product - and particularly difficult in the world of music reproduction. We all have different tastes in music, associated equipment etc. Music or equipment that I love [geniunely] may well be a disappointment (or worse) to the next guy.

Do you think opinions published in audio magazines are independant of their income stream? Do they declare financial interests in any of their opinions or recommendations?

I think all recommendations - from anywhere- need to be taken with a grain of salt. I find recommendations here and then do more research. More research on the equipment or music, and more research on the person recommending the gear. What are their tastes? What else have they recommended? etc.

There is certainly a lot of fanboyism here. There is no doubt in my mind about that. But whether they are shills remains a open question for me, but not one I spend much time thinking about.

Even with the best research in the world you will still buy gear that isn't quite what you were after. That's part of the audio journey. Only you can tell if you like it. I think that is the real message here. People can offer opinions, but only a fool would blindy take the recommendation of someone else without having a previous long standing relationship - even then it doesn't always work out.

Remember, this is not the only source for headphone related information on the internet.

 

[greggf]

This kind of marketing is commonplace on the web. It would be naive to believe that it doesn't take place on Head-Fi, now that traditional promotional channels are drying up, especially as the highly sought-after affluent young male demographic has abandoned almost every type of media save for the internet.

And boy, is Head-Fi a high testosterone zone!

The bottom line? Be wary of any and all especially strong recommendations for ANYTHING.

 

[jude]

Thacere is fanboyism in every hobby--it is certainly not unique to Head-Fi.org or audiophilism in general.

I recently took up photography (okay, I'm struggling to pretend I actually know anything about photography), and the fanboyism I see in photography forums is rampant (especially at the ones that entertain more than one brand--some are more brand-specific).

A project for one of my work clients once involved scouring sports car forums for opinions and feedback, and, man, some of those places redefine fanboyism.

Pick a hobby. Pick an associated forum for that hobby. You'll probably find it at some level or another there.

Quote:

Originally Posted by greggf /img/forum/go_quote.gif ....And boy, is Head-Fi a high testosterone zone! ....

What?! This site is a total chick magnet.

 

[Navyblue]

Quote:

Originally Posted by jude /img/forum/go_quote.gif I recently took up photography

Welcome to photography, and sorry for your wallet.

 

[braillediver]

“"Shill" implies some sort of quid pro quo, some payback.”

You mean like sample products, sales discounts, review pieces, extra tubes? Since no one knows how much a person paid for items it’s impossible to know. MSRP is just a number.

The only thing a person can do is read the Forums and keep a mental track of individual posters. It’s not too difficult to figure out who really knows the products and who continually shills a specific manufacturer.


Mitch

 

[orkney]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Assorted /img/forum/go_quote.gif I do not think there is much shill activity in the headphone/amp section of Head-fi. There is much more of this kind of thing going on in various hi-fi/speaker forums which I shouldn't mention, but I feel the hype is created more by "newbies" who echo what high profile reviewers say about the product, except in highly inflated "impressions" which use iPods as reference.

I agree. Wild enthusiasm for new product X is understandable, but there's a whole lot of threads these days in which the OP's actual query disappears beneath a raft of "MY AMP X RIPS THE PANTS OFF AND IN EVERY OTHER WAY DESTROYS ALL OTHER SUB-1000.00 AMPS TRY IT YOU'LL NEVER BELIEVE IT BLAH BAH BLAH HYSTERIC HYSTERIC..."

These kind of posts seriously lower the S/N ratio here and are unhelpful in at least two ways:

1. They rarely take account of the OP's specific requirements

2. They often derail the thread into defenses of/attacks on AMP X, leaving the OP at sea

I'm certainly guilty of wild enthusiasm for the latest toy but I now think twice before pushing my own faves on someone else without regard for their stated situation, budgets, tastes, etc. I'd like to see less blind fanboyism and less, but better, advice.

best,

o

 

[QQQ]

Used to use ignore button trigger-happily...

 

[tfarney]

A skilled shill will be indistinguishable from a fanboy, and one is just as dangerous as the other. Take all user reviews with a bolder of salt.

Tim

 

[Edwood]

Quote:

Originally Posted by jude /img/forum/go_quote.gif Thacere is fanboyism in every hobby--it is certainly not unique to Head-Fi.org or audiophilism in general. I recently took up photography (okay, I'm struggling to pretend I actually know anything about photography), and the fanboyism I see in photography forums is rampant (especially at the ones that entertain more than one brand--some are more brand-specific). A project for one of my work clients once involved scouring sports car forums for opinions and feedback, and, man, some of those places redefine fanboyism. Pick a hobby. Pick an associated forum for that hobby. You'll probably find it at some level or another there.

LOL, tell me about it. I've been obsessed with Bluetooth headsets lately, and have been posting in a Bluetooth forum, you would think that something as mundane as headsets wouldn't have such fanboyism. But I've been accused of being a shill for Jabra before. But I'm really a shill for Plantronics!






OK, I'm joking.





I prefer Jabra.






But I secretly lust for Sennheiser Bluetooth......

-Ed

 

[Zodduska]

Don't you mean the cable forum?

 

[rds]

I didn't know there was a cable forum