[nmatheis]

I've been wondering... where does someone go to audition DAPs anyway?

Not many places in the USA to test DAPs out, unfortunately. Sometimes there are tours. Most of the time you just have to wait for impressions from people whose preferences align well with yours...

 

[originalsnuffy]

In the olden days vendors would run tours.

With the new and improved head-fi that seems to happen less.

Sometimes vendors have given extra units to key influencers and they have created unofficial tours. Maybe PM NMatheis and see if he knows of any unofficial tours.

Like some others here, I just took a positive nod from NMatheis when I bought the M2S without a previous listen.

I would figure out which frequent contributors to Head-FI have similar tastes and that can usually get you pretty far along.

I gather that you can still audition DAPs in areas like Singapore (LMUE). In the USA that is pretty unlikely unless a local hifi shop also sells these units.

 

[BartSimpson1976]

Why specifically for USB C ports?

I mean makers should put dustcaps to the accessory bag. Whether MicroUSB, USB C or whatever comes next.

 

[nmatheis]

In the olden days vendors would run tours.

With the new and improved head-fi that seems to happen less.

Sometimes vendors have given extra units to key influencers and they have created unofficial tours. Maybe PM NMatheis and see if he knows of any unofficial tours.

Like some others here, I just took a positive nod from NMatheis when I bought the M2S without a previous listen.

I would figure out which frequent contributors to Head-FI have similar tastes and that can usually get you pretty far along.

I gather that you can still audition DAPs in areas like Singapore (LMUE). In the USA that is pretty unlikely unless a local hifi shop also sells these units.

Wha? Huh? Me? I know nothing, I tell you. Nothing!

 

[nmatheis]

I mean makers should put dustcaps to the accessory bag. Whether MicroUSB, USB C or whatever comes next.

I bought a bunch of 3.5mm jack plugs from AliExpress awhile back. Should buy more of those and some USB covers, too. Should be cheap...

 

[BartSimpson1976]

10 pieces should not set you back more than 5 dollars. And probably that is overpriced already.

 

[dantesan]

I think what would be really nice is if someone would just decide on a really high quality digital recorder as a standard/control and run the headphone output to it from all currently available DAPs so we could hear the difference in the output. It wouldn't tell you a whole lot about the power but it could tell you the sonic signature to compare against others. (If you used the same recorder for all of them) You could record it purposefully not at line level and boost it later maybe.

(Might want to volume match the recordings though)

 

[eaglesgift]

I think what would be really nice is if someone would just decide on a really high quality digital recorder as a standard/control and run the headphone output to it from all currently available DAPs so we could hear the difference in the output. It wouldn't tell you a whole lot about the power but it could tell you the sonic signature to compare against others. (If you used the same recorder for all of them) You could record it purposefully not at line level and boost it later maybe.

(Might want to volume match the recordings though)

How would we listen to the recordings?

 

[dantesan]

How would we listen to the recordings?

I was thinking something along the lines of using something like an iPhone and a pair of Sony MDR-7506's. Just to keep some consistency. (And keep it affordable since we can't all afford an expensive outboard DAC just for that.)

Keep in mind we're listening for "differences" rather than "quality."

 

[eaglesgift]

I was thinking something along the lines of using something like an iPhone and a pair of Sony MDR-7506's. Just to keep some consistency. (And keep it affordable since we can't all afford an expensive outboard DAC just for that.)

Keep in mind we're listening for "differences" rather than "quality."

Yeah, I just think it will be rather difficult to maintain any consistency given that we all have different equipment and whatever you choose to listen with will have the potential to colour the sound of the recordings. I know you are looking for differences but perhaps a certain source might make a recording of an overly bright DAP sound good to your ears and you could then decide to buy it based on your impressions. The warmer DAPs that may have been closer to your preferences might sound too dark....just an example but you can see what I'm trying to say I hope.

 

[dantesan]

Yeah, I just think it will be rather difficult to maintain any consistency given that we all have different equipment and whatever you choose to listen with will have the potential to colour the sound of the recordings. I know you are looking for differences but perhaps a certain source might make a recording of an overly bright DAP sound good to your ears and you could then decide to buy it based on your impressions. The warmer DAPs that may have been closer to your preferences might sound too dark....just an example but you can see what I'm trying to say I hope.

I understand certainly. However I had meant it to go alongside normal reviews so that if you took that in mind and had heard a dap that like a Cayin N3 and and M2S... simply telling me the M2S is lacking in high end comparatively doesn't tell me "how much in comparison." To be honest the way people talk about the N3 makes me worry that it might be too much treble for my taste. Yet I don't want muddy treble either. I understand the recording, playback and amplification will all play a part... at least it might give me a ballpark idea. We could just do a frequency response chart comparison between the two using a (decided upon) piece of gear I suppose.

Or maybe we could figure out some kind of loan/test program where we could pay a deposit and simply rent the thing? It might even be good to do that with some of the cheaper models like an M1 just to use as a baseline so the review/comparisons make sense.

At the very least I think we need to standardize how DAPs are reviewed. It seems like 80% of the DAP reviews I read barely touch on subjects I want them to... and even when they do they selectively ignore the topic when reviewing another DAP. (Headfonics.com is the closest thing to reviewing with consistency in mind... using number ratings for SQ, matchability, UI... etc) But if you look at some of their earlier reviews they didnt bother with those numbers. A consistently ignored topic in ALL DAP reviews seems to be the method used to make playlists and whether you can do it on the device and what that user experience is like. It's like people have gotten so used to just doing folders because the "status quo" is so bad in that regard they just shrug and say "I use folders." (Crossing arms to show off their Apple-hatred tattoo and looking like a hipster asshole.) Almost as if they've had to put up with bad UI/UX so long that they carry it as a badge of honor instead of a problem to be fixed.

Headfonics is pretty much the only reviewer I've seen that even makes a wholehearted attempt to cover usability in a measured way instead of just focusing exclusively on what they PERSONALLY care about.

I'm currently waiting to see how the m3s fares.

 

[eaglesgift]

I understand certainly. However I had meant it to go alongside normal reviews so that if you took that in mind and had heard a dap that like a Cayin N3 and and M2S... simply telling me the M2S is lacking in high end comparatively doesn't tell me "how much in comparison." To be honest the way people talk about the N3 makes me worry that it might be too much treble for my taste. Yet I don't want muddy treble either. I understand the recording, playback and amplification will all play a part... at least it might give me a ballpark idea. We could just do a frequency response chart comparison between the two using a (decided upon) piece of gear I suppose.

Or maybe we could figure out some kind of loan/test program where we could pay a deposit and simply rent the thing? It might even be good to do that with some of the cheaper models like an M1 just to use as a baseline so the review/comparisons make sense.

At the very least I think we need to standardize how DAPs are reviewed. It seems like 80% of the DAP reviews I read barely touch on subjects I want them to... and even when they do they selectively ignore the topic when reviewing another DAP. (Headfonics.com is the closest thing to reviewing with consistency in mind... using number ratings for SQ, matchability, UI... etc) But if you look at some of their earlier reviews they didnt bother with those numbers. A consistently ignored topic in ALL DAP reviews seems to be the method used to make playlists and whether you can do it on the device and what that user experience is like. It's like people have gotten so used to just doing folders because the "status quo" is so bad in that regard they just shrug and say "I use folders." (Crossing arms to show off their Apple-hatred tattoo and looking like a hipster asshole.)

I'm currently waiting to see how the m3s fares.

I very much doubt you would find the N3 too trebly - but I don't want to wander too far off topic. I honestly have never used playlists so that's not something I can comment about. I'm not a hipster although I did have a strong dislike for Apple products in the past but really it's just because I'm an old fart and I listen to albums much the same way I used to when all I had were vinyl records, in the very early 80s.

I'll be interested to see what the M3S is like but at the moment I'm more interested in getting hold of the M1 I ordered from Joybuy. For some reason that they can't explain, it has gone to the Netherlands on its way to Thailand from China.

 

[dantesan]

I have gone back and forth with my opinions of apple over the years depending on what they were doing. In the past 5 years I've primarily been in the negative about them for many reasons... but my point is that many people seem to simultaneously want to "defeat apple" while ignoring the very qualities and features that keep apple in their current market position. Defeating apple on sound quality isn't all that hard. It's everything else that's difficult. The best example I can think off offhand is the Sony DAPs. As far as I can tell they have everything a would-be apple customer could want except that stupid proprietary cable. (Granted apple has their own stupid proprietary cable but at least its ubiquitous enough to get one almost anywhere.) I am most excited about these new DAPs with Hibylink though. I don't like being dependant on my smartphone to have those deeper functions but its still far better than having to use something like mediamonkey or foobar. But I don't like the android DAPs either because of the horrible battery life and slow startup. I've been watching the DAP market for about ten years casually... waiting for them to "mature" into something I consider usable.

 

[Olimatou]

Hi folks,

@Shanling : Does the USB DAC on M3s can accept direct DSD decoding or not ? If yes, what kind of DSD can it support (DSD64+128 or more)? For frequency response, does 20Khz is the max value for all settings or it can go beyond ?

Thx

 

[sjb57]

A consistently ignored topic in ALL DAP reviews seems to be the method used to make playlists and whether you can do it on the device and what that user experience is like. It's like people have gotten so used to just doing folders because the "status quo" is so bad in that regard they just shrug and say "I use folders." (Crossing arms to show off their Apple-hatred tattoo and looking like a hipster asshole.) Almost as if they've had to put up with bad UI/UX so long that they carry it as a badge of honor instead of a problem to be fixed
.

I just don't understand the lack of Playlist functionality on many DAP's. Creating Playlists is as old as the cassette. Back in the 70's & 80's it was very popular to select tracks off LP's (placing the stylus very carefully) and putting a whole bunch of them on a C90 cassette. The technology has changed but the need remains the same: how to play the songs you want to listen to, in the order you want, & at the best possible quality. Smart Playlists are just a case of using Tags too. With android devices at least you can add apps like Media Monkey Gold but I think a DAP maker could take the market lead with some clever yet simple firmware.