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Shanling M0 - Nano size, touch screen, LDAC & aptX BT, USB DAC/transport and ESS Sabre ES9218P, FW 3.2

Discussion in 'Portable Source Gear' started by Shanling, Mar 16, 2018.
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  1. BD6DD
    iPhone's that don't have a headphone output don't have a DAC. The dongle supplied has the DAC:
    https://ifixit.org/blog/8448/apple-audio-adapter-teardown/

    Using the DAC in the M0 would be fine but I can't get it to power over USB. Using BT from the iPhone to the M0 then LDAC to the Sony's would be SBC or maybe AAC at best (can't tell) from the iphone, which defeats the purpose of all of this.

    What digital to LDAC dongle would you recommend? That was my whole reason of buying the M0.

    Yes, i forgot about the DAC in the Sony's, good point.

    "Most any dap can output a pure digital signal bypassing their dac" , right, how can i do that with the M0 and get audio via LDAC?
     
  2. DBaldock9
    How do you hear the phone ringtones on the speakers, and voices on phone calls, if there's no DAC in the phone?
     
    abitdeef, trellus and AndySocial like this.
  3. BD6DD
    Ok, yes, clarification is required, Analog output via the lightning port-

    I hope to have a mojo someday.
     
  4. abitdeef
    I have and iPhone 8 and there is no dac in the 3.5 adaptor I assure you. There is an amp and dac in the apple chipset. I did see the tear down and they said they guessed it was a dac, but you still need an amp too so ..

    Of course it could be a system on a chip with a built in amp, but what about the included ibuds? Shirley there isn’t room in the connector?
     
    Last edited: Aug 11, 2018
  5. bflat
    Per M0 spec, it only works as a USB DAC when connected to a PC or Mac. There may be workarounds for Android but not for iOS since it has strict power requirements.
     
  6. BD6DD
    https://appleinsider.com/articles/1...arpods-lightning-to-35mm-adapter-for-iphone-7
     
  7. BD6DD
    Hopefully someone can chime in with some solutions vs debating semantics.
     
  8. abitdeef
    Lol I’m still not sure what you want. What usb power are you talking about? The iPhone? Bflat told you about apples power requirements to use the M0s dac. I suggested just using the M0 itself to send LDAC to the Sony headphones. I haven’t looked for Bluetooth transmitters because I don’t need to, but I’m thinking there should be at least one for iPhone.

    Plus Shanling should be making a hiby link type software that you could control the M0 from your phone, or you could hope Apple gets LDAC support in a future os, highly unlikely but you never know.
     
    Last edited: Aug 11, 2018
  9. BD6DD
    :) Yes the iPhone, via the lightning to USB dongle. The goal is to use the iPhone with its infinite library of music options vs the old school iPod like antics of the M0 directly off of the SD card.

    Or let me boil it down this way, I bought the M0 to add LDAC support to my iphone, know of a better way?

    Outside of that, why wouldn't MAC via USB to M0, allow BT to the headphones thereafter? Is it just limited to analog out only in that mode?
     
    Last edited: Aug 11, 2018
  10. technobear
    Yes.

    Currently when in USB DAC mode, wired headphones are the only option.

    Shanling have said they are looking into this. They simply never imagined that anyone would want to use USB DAC mode with a Bluetooth headphone because why would you not just use Bluetooth from the source and not via M0.

    So far as Bluetooth is concerned, M0 can be receiver or transmitter but not both at the same time. This is a hardware limitation and will not change.
     
  11. BD6DD
    TB - thanks for the clarity and agreed, in times past BT was so compressed it was pointless to take a nice DAC output and compress it into BT but with LDAC I'd debate that's changed. Hopefully it's added down the road to the M0, for now, I think I'll return it. I can see how it's case closed on Android since Oreo has support for LDAC baked in free of charge from Sony. However in iOS we're still at AAC, hence the search.

    BT 5.0 is here but the codecs are yet to catch up. Next year should be a blast!

    Oreo & LDAC:
    https://www.androidauthority.com/sony-ldac-codec-790690

    Codecs and Bitrates Comparison

    AAC: 250 kbps
    SBC: 328 kbps
    aptX: 352 kbps
    aptX HD: 576 kbps
    LDAC: 990 kbps

    [​IMG]
     
    DBaldock9 likes this.
  12. myusernameislove
    Calm your horses dear discuteers:). If this all nonsense is about connecting iphone to M0, than your option is AAC, or OTG. But as far as I know, OTG with iOs is pain: you need 1st, so called apple camera adapter = lightning to USB dongle (2 versions exist, the newer one with additional lightning port is better because it is better shielded) 2nd, you need usb to usb-c OTG cable. Will it work? I do not know. It usually does, but Apple is Apple. :)

    Plus
    On the topic of reencoding. "Some nice dac's output going into LDAC" should be a MEME. It hurts so bad. Ldac is software based. Are you implying that Reencoding your original audio file to LDAC with Chord DAVE would result into much better quality sound then doing it with with your standard chinese Single Onboard Chip? In my opinion upscaling capabilities of MScaler could help a bit to bite into more bits :), but otherwise, I am against an idea, that "some nice dacs" reencode better than others, because the Codec itself is the managing unit, that uses the hardware available, and I am in doubt that Sony made their BT codec hardware scalable. Ok, if Chord invented their own version of LDAC, then I may start to believe you.

    Btw
    Keeping it all in AAC from ios through BT to M0 is not necessarily bad thing. That means no reencoding during the transfer. With LDAC you need to reencode. What happens during the reencode? Is some information lost even if it fits in theoretical kbps range of LDAC? That is the question. But it is more question on the topic of reencoding, than on the topic of LDAC. I think there are universal rules how reencode works. Hopefully someone who actually knows will clarify.
     
    Last edited: Aug 12, 2018
    J Kelley and Vimtoman like this.
  13. anton79ru
    This really depends on what earphones you use, what amount of bass you need, and in what environment you listen to music (e.g. you need more bass in the subway because of the low frequency noise level).

    But it's true that a bright source like M0 paired with bright sounding earphones like Ety ER4 will leave you wanting more bass. On the other hand, I'm so attached to the mids of ER4 that I'm unlikely to switch to anything else. So I'm currently wired to my Huawei Mate 10 Pro, whose sound settings have a rather nicely implemented bass boost feature, waiting for something similar to be available in the M0.

    I have thus far been inclined to think that custom digital equalization on top of what comes out of your source results in reduced fidelity to the original material, but I don't think I know what it means anymore, since your perception can be altered by so many factors like earphones, ambient noise nature/level and even time of the day for God's sake. So yes, I'm confident that M0 should have an elaborate custom EQ and/or a bass boost setting to make it a truly universal source.
     
  14. trellus
    I think this a common misconception. System sounds are still mixed with music, including AAC music, in iOS. This means the the complete mixed sound stream must be AAC encoded, meaning, that AAC music file is reencoded.

    Test it for yourself and you’ll hear it. :)
     
  15. tacit
    Now I figured out why last track is not remembered on my device, Shanling M0 does not work correctly with exFAT formatted mictoSD drive. With FAT32 everything is OK.

    If there is Shanling representative on the forum, please correct the problem of the otherwise amazing product.
     
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