[penbat]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyson Lindrone, How do the UE-10s sound with a little bass boost? with their dual bass drivers, it seems like they would take to it very well, and it might give you a sound that you like better.

My Superdual amp has bass boost and i wanted to try it on my UE-10 but unfortunately my Superdual has died on me and i am trying to get a replacement.

 

[lindrone]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyson Lindrone, How do the UE-10s sound with a little bass boost? with their dual bass drivers, it seems like they would take to it very well, and it might give you a sound that you like better.

You mean, with their triple drivers?

Bass boost doesn't really add any warmth to the bass, it does enhance it, but it doesn't get to the level of overall warmth of the 2X-S anyway. UE-10's sound signature is just very lean overall.

 

[iamdone]

Lindrone, it now sounds like you are straight out saying the sensa are better headphones vs your original argument that it depends are your taste. You may dislike the ue10 even more now than at first but doesn't still come down to taste.

The ety vs shure is an even bigger difference and I couldn't understand how anyone could settle for them if any of there music contained vocals. Yet there are lot of people that do.

It also seems that the description has changed in regards to detail. You said the ue10 have better highend detail vs the sensa. This is very important for some people. Many people also don't agree with your opinion of "warm" meaning more musical.

I understand you wanting to help people make the right choice but do you honestly feel that everyone would be happier with the sensas vs ue10 just because you are? (including me)

 

[RunsWithScissors]

Tyson - you write the best reviews - well done.

Since I've heard both the ER4 and E5, you've made it easy for me to identify with your perceptions and place these phones in a context I can understand. You also did a great job describing some very intangible things so that I can get a sense of what you are hearing. This is the mark of an excellent review. Thanks!

Here's wishing you good luck and many hours of enjoyment with these phones!

 

[gorman]

First things first, I want to state very clearly that I do think and believe that Sensas are an incredible piece of audiophile technology.

But Lindrone, you stated in your review:

The difference between the UE-10 and 2X-S more about sound signature preference rather than true technical superiority.

The high-end on the UE-10 is sharp and clear, everything is clear and very detailed. The clear high-end gives UE-10 an extra "edge" in its sound reproduction. Chimes are very clear, even high-range vocals (usually female vocals) has some extra sharpness to it. Comparatively, the high-end on the 2X-S is more sedated.

The decay characteristic also helps 2X-S in the midrange a whole lot, in my opinion, because it adds warmth and a richness of tone to the midrange especially. It doesn't really help much in the high-range instruments, but in the midrange, where you've got acoustic guitars, pianos and vocals, it really lends some very "magical" presentation that UE-10 doesn't seem to be capable of. Whether or not this extra sense of richness is accurate to the original sound though, is another matter. I think it's really an extra bit of coloration that makes the sound warm and smooth.

Emphasis mine...

On some recordings, once in a while, in one or two particular beat, there is an extra level of deeper bass. For the few notes which it did appear, yes, there is credence to the triple driver design offering extra amount of audible bass at a very low level. However, you do have to look pretty hard for it, and very few recordings other than hip-hop/rap genre will have bass that reaches that deep level.

Now, remember back to what I said about UE-10's vocals being overpowering sometimes. That's one flaw I see in the presentation of the UE-10. In the same way, here's a flaw about the presentation of the 2X-S, when the bass gets really heavy and repeats quickly, there's a tendency for the visceral vibration of the bass to overtake some of the higher-end instruments.

And I could go on... but I invite anybody to read the full review, because I'm not completely comfortable with this "selective quoting". My point is that by reading your review, it appears clear, to me at least, that what we are talking here are personal preferences in sound signature. If I add into that the fact that Michael Santucci (Sensaphonics) was very forthcoming in admitting with me that Sensas do emphasize bass because independent studies show that people, generally, like more bass... I'm ever more convinced that it boils down to personal preferences (and with these prices, I doubt somebody is gonna take one over the other for $100-150 of difference).

Hence, I was trying to make people realize that and not start panicking because they've alread ordered UE-10. That's all.

 

[lindrone]

Let me try to make this clear. I'm not saying that UE-10 Pro is inferior, it is more and more distasteful to me, actually... because that forward vocal and lack of warmth is just started to bother me more and more. Sure, if I didn't have the 2X-S, I can very well "settle" for that sound, but I would be settling.

For other people who like that signature and like that taste of sound, UE-10 Pro is great for you. What I'm trying to make clear is that even though UE-10 Pro is not "inferior", it is certainly not "superior" either.

What I'm also trying to make clear, is that because of the intial wave of people jumping on the UE-10, and the extensive coverage of them on other forums (such as iPodlounge), I think there's a lot of newcomer who would think that UE are their only choice, when in fact there are other choice that might be better suited for their taste of sound.


Quote:

Originally Posted by iamdone It also seems that the description has changed in regards to detail. You said the ue10 have better highend detail vs the sensa. This is very important for some people.

Thanks Gorman for going back to re-quoting my review, what I said is that the sharpness of the UE-10 gives it an extra "edge" on the high-end. It is not necessarily more detail, just the detail is presented with an extra sharpness. So you hear the same notes, but UE-10 would present it with a little bit of sharpness. At the same time, 2X-S's high-end doesn't have that sharpness, but it also doesn't have the rough edge and the harshness that UE-10 would have from time to time.

The extra richness to the sound is really great on the 2X-S, whether or not musicians would like this in a monitoring situation is up to debate... very much their personal preference as well. The same way that this is a nice "enhancement" to the recording for the 2X-S, so is the forward vocal on the UE-10. UE-10 definitely pushes certain range of vocals forward in a way that's more of an "enhancement" for its particular use (monitoring) rather than being "faithful" to the recording itself.


Quote:

Originally Posted by iamdone Many people also don't agree with your opinion of "warm" meaning more musical.

Yes, I do consider 2X-S warmer and more musical, but I did not say they were more musical because they're warmer. Warmth and musicality are two different things. I consider CD3000 very, very musical, but they're not anywhere near what one would consider warm.

2X-S is more musical because of its better decay, the extra detail in the microdynamics that UE-10 doesn't produce as well. The overall fluidity of music itself on the 2X-S is just better.


Quote:

Originally Posted by iamdone I understand you wanting to help people make the right choice but do you honestly feel that everyone would be happier with the sensas vs ue10 just because you are? (including me)

No, I don't expect everyone to be happier... at the same time, I don't understand how some people can like headphones like Sennheiser HD280 either, right? I know, random example, but it's that type of taste difference to me, I suppose.

I'm simply trying to present the other side of the argument, because UE-10 already has enough supporters anyway, I don't need to go out and talk about the merits of UE-10, since enough people already has.

 

[gorman]

Hi Lindrone, happy you understood what I meant and even happier because I did not misinterpret your judgement of the two products.

In a way, you know, it's just you are very vocal in your Sensas support so others feel there is the need to counterbalance that. But it's not a war or anything.

At the end of the day I'm afraid that in the long run I won't be able to resist and will splash for the Sensas as well... maybe next year. First I have to decide on a proper amp for my UE. Do you have suggestions?

 

[penbat]

Just to let you guys know that HRA has PMd me more about the next generation of IEMs for the consumer market. This has apparently been identified as a clear growth area. Several companies are developing new IEMs but UE is at the forefront. The new IEMs should be cheaper and better. UE actually have some new models of IEM ready right now. UE are simply waiting to get them patented which HRA makes a rough guess could take 3 to 6 months.

I can't see why HRA would bullsh*t about this but i don't think you would expect UE to admit to these plans right now for commercial reasons.

I would seriously think about getting a new model of IEM from UE. As UE has my impressions already it should be a very straight forward to buy them from them.

 

[gorman]

penbat... you are trying to kill my wallet... let's hope they don't come out too soon

 

[penbat]

Quote:

Originally Posted by gorman penbat... you are trying to kill my wallet... let's hope they don't come out too soon

I guess it could take six months and after that there could be quite a lot of Head-Fi analysis comparing and reviewing the different models.

It is still useful perspective and i would suggest that it isn't worth buying another IEM (such as a Sensa) in the meantime. The new IEMs should be cheaper and better.

 

[iamdone]

My concern was more with those who have not decided. Lindrone was recommending the ue10 to those who tastes he thought would like it and now I thought he changed his mind and thought that everyone would prefer the sensas.

So now I guess it comes to down to whether I like a rounded edge or a sharp edge. Based on my experiment with opamp rolling, I think I prefer a sharp edge. While a smooth edge initially made things sound better, I find rock music to be missing that bite and aggression that I like. I'm sure the sounds I was hearing don't represent those headphones at all but that's all I have to go on.

The only other thing that has been bothering me about the sensas is that graph the HRA posted comparing them ue10. If it's at all true, the sensas highs roll off to soon for me taste.

 

[Tyson]

Yeah, that graph worried me as well, it looked pretty nasty. But I just don't hear that. If it were accurate, then cymbals and high hats would definitely be attenuated or simply missing in action. But the fact is that with the Sensa's I hear cymbals better than I've ever heard them on any other transducers, period (that includes my home speakers with ribbon tweeters that extend out to 30khz). Not only that, but the difference in sound between the different cymbals is very clearly evidident (ie, I can hear when one cymbal is larger or smaller than another), and the dynamics of whether a cymbal is struck hard, soft, or merely tapped is also very evident. Or, somethimes in a very busy song that I've heard a hundred times, I'll say "whoa, where the hell did that xylaphone come from" because it's metalic high pitched sound cuts through the mix with the 2x-s like nothing I've used before. But mostly, I can hear the difference between when a cymbal is hit and a few moments later "grabbed" by the person playing, and when it is left to vibrate, shimmer, and decay over a long time to silence. If the 2x-s truly had a rolled off top end I'd never hear any of that, let alone hear it so clearly and effortlessly. So I don't know how to address or explain the graph other than to say that it certainly does not correspond to what I hear at all.

 

[iamdone]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyson Yeah, that graph worried me as well, it looked pretty nasty. But I just don't hear that. If it were accurate, then cymbals and high hats would definitely be attenuated or simply missing in action. But the fact is that with the Sensa's I hear cymbals better than I've ever heard them on any other transducers, period (that includes my home speakers with ribbon tweeters that extend out to 30khz). Not only that, but the difference in sound between the different cymbals is very clearly evidident (ie, I can hear when one cymbal is larger or smaller than another), and the dynamics of whether a cymbal is struck hard, soft, or merely tapped is also very evident. Or, somethimes in a very busy song that I've heard a hundred times, I'll say "whoa, where the hell did that xylaphone come from" because it's metalic high pitched sound cuts through the mix with the 2x-s like nothing I've used before. But mostly, I can hear the difference between when a cymbal is hit and a few moments later "grabbed" by the person playing, and when it is left to vibrate, shimmer, and decay over a long time to silence. If the 2x-s truly had a rolled off top end I'd never hear any of that, let alone hear it so clearly and effortlessly. So I don't know how to address or explain the graph other than to say that it certainly does not correspond to what I hear at all.

Thanks. Maybe the graph is wrong. Just to clarify, didn't you think the etys highs were to bright for you? Did you find the shures greatly lacking in highs? I just want to make sure your not just overly sensitive to highs and just can pick them out better than I.

I've been leaning towards the ultimate ears the whole time but I want to make sure I don't rule out the sensas if they would actually be better for me.

 

[cmascatello]

I also would have to agree with Tyson in his assessment of the highs on the 2X-S. I previously owned the ER4P and e5c and was more enamored with the Shure sound than the Ety. However, my reason for moving form the Ety to the Shure was b/c I found the ER4 signature to be too sterile for my liking. The highs were great and I did not find them too harsh or sibbilant -- occasional songs were a little grating, but it was always due to the recording rather than something produced by the Etys. I have CD3Ks as my full-sized cans and also enjoys the highs from them, however, the sound is more fun than it ever was with the Etys.

 

[iamdone]

Quote:

Originally Posted by cmascatello I also would have to agree with Tyson in his assessment of the highs on the 2X-S. I previously owned the ER4P and e5c and was more enamored with the Shure sound than the Ety. However, my reason for moving form the Ety to the Shure was b/c I found the ER4 signature to be too sterile for my liking. The highs were great and I did not find them too harsh or sibbilant -- occasional songs were a little grating, but it was always due to the recording rather than something produced by the Etys. I have CD3Ks as my full-sized cans and also enjoys the highs from them, however, the sound is more fun than it ever was with the Etys.

Thanks. I agree the etys can be grating at times. There are also sterile if used just out of the ipod but with my PPA, they come alive. On the shures, I mainly had trouble with the vocals and details otherwise the shures did everything else better. I greatly prefer my hd650/zu to my etys as well. That's why I want to upgrade. I still have time to decide but I want to make the best decision that I'll like and not someone else preference.