[estreeter]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thrawn7 /img/forum/go_quote.gif Marcus does go a bit overboard in flaming Senns though. His description of the HD-595 in the product page is "odd, almost faulty sounding, bass response". The use of the word 'faulty' is something you can probably get sued for libel. I think its perfectly fair for a distributor to refuse selling products to a reseller that bad mouths its product, especially in such a blatant way.

And yet the Senn distributor was happy to continue to sell cans via Headphonic - clearly, prospective purchasers weren't taking Marcus opinion as their only criteria for buying a pair of Senns. I don't agree with everything Marcus says, but I will say this : he gives you his 'warts and all' opinion, not a blatant copy and paste from Marketing Central. If I have a complaint about many audio 'reviews' I can find on the Net, its that I dont read enough 'cons' against all the 'pros' : 6 Moons are a classic case in point. It seems to be standard practice for a new Chinese DAC/amp to have a review up on 6 Moons before anyone else on the planet has even heard of them.

Many people here disagree with Marcus' assessment of the 595s, but quite a few felt he was right on the money. Whatever your own view, the point is that he is prepared to voice an opinion that doesnt always line up with the hype, and we need more people like that in audio. Unlike many salespeople in your average franchise, he has actually tried the products that adorn his wall.

 

[pp312]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Drubbing /img/forum/go_quote.gif Having heard a lot of Senn's, I tended to agree with him; Senn has some very average products at the lower end, for above average price tags.

But lower end is not what we're talking about. Marcus bags the top end Sennheiser as well. In fact he's so consistent in his dislike of Sennheiser that one has to wonder just what his musical tastes are and what sort of sound he considers good. I'm all for retailers being honest in their opinions, but it's clear that Marcus' and Sennheisers' idea of accurate sound are totally opposed. I listen to classical/orchestral and find Sennheisers by far the most accurate and satisfying for this genre; if Marcus listens to rap/electronica/trance or whatever, that could very well explain his bias. But we need to know that. As a consumer, I would not give any credence to the opinion of someone who listened to a completely different genre of music.

 

[Thrawn7]

Quote:

Originally Posted by estreeter /img/forum/go_quote.gif And yet the Senn distributor was happy to continue to sell cans via Headphonic - clearly, prospective purchasers weren't taking Marcus opinion as their only criteria for buying a pair of Senns. I don't agree with everything Marcus says, but I will say this : he gives you his 'warts and all' opinion, not a blatant copy and paste from Marketing Central. If I have a complaint about many audio 'reviews' I can find on the Net, its that I dont read enough 'cons' against all the 'pros' : 6 Moons are a classic case in point. It seems to be standard practice for a new Chinese DAC/amp to have a review up on 6 Moons before anyone else on the planet has even heard of them. Many people here disagree with Marcus' assessment of the 595s, but quite a few felt he was right on the money. Whatever your own view, the point is that he is prepared to voice an opinion that doesnt always line up with the hype, and we need more people like that in audio. Unlike many salespeople in your average franchise, he has actually tried the products that adorn his wall.

Please note that Marcus'es comment on HD-595 comes under the heading of 'Description', not 'Review'.

Description - Either official spiel obtained from the manufacturer or a commonly accepted fact
Review - A personal opinion of a product, which sometimes differs from reality

It'd be more factual if Marcus put the comments under a separate 'Headphonic's Opinion' section.

The other is, like it or not.. Marcus becomes in effect an official agent by selling Sennheiser products obtained from the distributor. Especially calling something 'faulty' is a serious matter. Faulty means that a product is not fit-for-purpose.

Say if a customer buys a HD-595 from JB-Hifi, then reads Headphonic a week later. Realizing he didn't like the headphone for some reason, he has reasonable grounds to return the product because an official Sennheiser agent described the product as faulty. Yes, it is a bit farfetched but I think it underlines the importance of separating opinion from fact.

We all know over in Head-Fi that Headphonic is Marcus's site and that the descriptions are in reality reviews, but not the general public.

 

[estreeter]

OK - I guess we could argue about the 595s all night, but end of the day I have never seen his product descriptions in that light : they are usually far too in-your-face for that. Any reputable retailer would accept a headphone returned, for whatever reason, within whatever 'money back' period they stipulate in their conditions of sale - it may be different in your neck of the woods.

 

[wink]

I asked a HIFI dealer near my place when I could audition a HD800 back in February. I was told they would contact me when they arrived.
I went back a few weeks ago to see what the situation was.
I was told by the head salesman that Syntec had some in stock but didn't want to release them because they didn't want to put up with dealers crying poor because someone else got a demo unit and they didnt.
So, until enough arrive in OZ to keep all the dealers happy, they will be gathering dust in the Syntec storeroom.

 

[iponderous]

Marcus is a maverick and a knowledgeable one at that. He is an independent retailer who lives up to the description. He is prepared to give the prospective consumer his honest assessment of the products that he sells for good or for bad and I value that kind of customer service. You might not agree with his views but you can't question his integrity either. More power to him I say.

 

[Drubbing]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thrawn7 /img/forum/go_quote.gif Price fixing is illegal though and if its true/proven that the Syntec made it a condition of buying Senns to not advertise/sell below RRP, they're gonna get fined by ACCC.

Yeah, the ACCC are something to fear; they've really taken the petrol industry down a peg or three haven't they?

 

[jpw007]

Quote:

Originally Posted by iponderous /img/forum/go_quote.gif Marcus is a maverick and a knowledgeable one at that. He is an independent retailer who lives up to the description. He is prepared to give the prospective consumer his honest assessment of the products that he sells for good or for bad and I value that kind of customer service. You might not agree with his views but you can't question his integrity either. More power to him I say.

Having read quite alot of reviews on Marcus' site, i totally agree with you.

He has nothing to gain out of telling his opinion, he makes money on all headphones no matter what. He might as well tell what he sees in the headphones. He calls it as it is, if people cant accept that they are most likely the kind of persona who cant handle any sort of constructive crticism.

Anywho, this just proves Audio Technica >>>>>> Sennheiser imho.

 

[nkoulban]

I checked on the price of the HD800 in Australia and was gobsmacked... $2400 AUD vs $800USD. I also found that I could not order a HD800 out of the U.S. I have a HD650 and that I wanted to upgrade... now I'm looking at a Lawton modified Denons... yes these will cost me less in Australia!

As for Marcus, I have purchased cans from him before... I think he tends to favour cans that sound good unamped. I disagree with his assessment of the HD650, but it's healthy to have a different view. As for Senn's treatment of him... shameful.

I'm certainly not interested in a HD800 now given there are other high end options that are more affordable to me... Senns loss I guess. Let them sell lots of PX100s through JB HiFI... I don't care anymore.

 

[EugeneK]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thrawn7 /img/forum/go_quote.gif Price fixing is illegal though and if its true/proven that the Syntec made it a condition of buying Senns to not advertise/sell below RRP, they're gonna get fined by ACCC.

I dunno if this can be considered price fixing.

It sounds like Senn Aus is just not willing to supply anyone who will resell the product below MSRP. So you can sell below MSRP for as long as your stocks last, Senn Aus isn't stopping you from doing it, they just won't give you any more product to sell.

 

[EugeneK]

Quote:

Originally Posted by nkoulban /img/forum/go_quote.gif I checked on the price of the HD800 in Australia and was gobsmacked... $2400 AUD vs $800USD. I also found that I could not order a HD800 out of the U.S. I have a HD650 and that I wanted to upgrade... now I'm looking at a Lawton modified Denons... yes these will cost me less in Australia!

MSRP for the HD800 is 1400 USD.

 

[jpw007]

Quote:

Originally Posted by EugeneK /img/forum/go_quote.gif I dunno if this can be considered price fixing. It sounds like Senn Aus is just not willing to supply anyone who will resell the product below MSRP. So you can sell below MSRP for as long as your stocks last, Senn Aus isn't stopping you from doing it, they just won't give you any more product to sell.

From what i can gather, what the distributor is doing is definately not illegal, its just exceptionally shameful. They essentially have different prices that they charge to online e-tailers so that they can not sell them as cheaply as they were previously.

Thos just leaves either the idiot consumer out of pocket (as it always does....) or screws over Aussie businesses as the actually wise consumers will imprt from overseas and save themselves something ridiculous like 50%.....

 

[ford2]

Quote:

Originally Posted by EugeneK /img/forum/go_quote.gif MSRP for the HD800 is 1400 USD.

Yes,and the Australian price is $2055us at present exchange.

Thanks Senn for a $650us rip off.

If you are desperate for these get them from overseas,let the stocks they have here gather dust for eternity.

Better still never buy Senn again.

 

[Thrawn7]

Current US prices from Amazon.com (first US retailer I can think of).

Audio Technica AD700 $87
Sennheiser HD-555 $101


Prices at Headphonic

Audio Technica AD700 $219
Sennheiser HD-555 $219 (AFTER the price increase)


Take a look which brand has the higher markup in Oz. I'm not cherry picking either as HD-555 is the exact model referred to by Marcus and AD700 is the closest equivalent.

Prior to the price rise, the $156 price of HD-555 is actually pretty competitive with world pricing (after GST, free shipping and exchange rate is factored in).

 

[Drubbing]

Quote:

Originally Posted by pp312 /img/forum/go_quote.gif But lower end is not what we're talking about. Marcus bags the top end Sennheiser as well. In fact he's so consistent in his dislike of Sennheiser that one has to wonder just what his musical tastes are and what sort of sound he considers good. I'm all for retailers being honest in their opinions, but it's clear that Marcus' and Sennheisers' idea of accurate sound are totally opposed. I listen to classical/orchestral and find Sennheisers by far the most accurate and satisfying for this genre; if Marcus listens to rap/electronica/trance or whatever, that could very well explain his bias. But we need to know that. As a consumer, I would not give any credence to the opinion of someone who listened to a completely different genre of music.

Look at it this way: He gets heaps of people lobbing onto his forum or calling him up and saying "I want the 650, I've heard its the most awesome headphone going from places like Head fi, and I'm only going to be playing on my PC or portable player without an amp, but it's a really top notch headphone, so, like, it'll really make my player sound super awesome, right? Oh, and I only ever listen to hard core techno and rap.

Ok, I'm exaggerating somewhat, but he does get stuff like this all the time. Is he going to recommend the 650? No, because he's giving personalised advice. He gets plenty of people wanting a particular phone - usually a Sennheiser, because it's the best known brand to joe average, not even thinking whether it will suit the choice of music or environment they'll be plugging it into. So he recommends something that will suit them. He would in fact recommend the 650 for someone like yourself who listens to Classical or Jazz. It works. He has a loyal and returning customer base.

Not only that, his opinions are also based on what customers tell him, and what products they return for exchange, and why. It's in his business interest to consider what people will like.

The difference between his opinion and a forum collective, is he's listened and knows his whole stock. While it's still subjective and certainly not the ultimate authority, it has one person as a fixed reference, as opposed to here, where 50 opinions of 100 different phones are based on any number of permutations of ancillary gear that they've been played on.

But this is all great discussion about the Evil Marcus, it sure detracts from the whole point of the thread - which is Senn's grip on the testicles of small Australian retailers.