Sennheiser Shenannigans - AUS

[estreeter]

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Originally Posted by Thrawn7 /img/forum/go_quote.gif I don't want to repeat myself anymore.. so this is the last post I'll put on this topic.

And I applaud your restraint.

 

[Drubbing]

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Originally Posted by pp312 /img/forum/go_quote.gif The real problem with Marcus' opinions is that they're not confined to the forum; they're right there plastered on his product description like fact rather than opinion. His assessment of the 595 is odd to say the least; I have not read anything like it anywhere, even from users. The 595 harsh? No way, not on any type of music. But how many potential buyers have gone to his website to check his 595 price, read that "review" and decided on something else? No wonder Sennheiser aren't in love with him. I'm surprised they haven't sued him for defamation of Sennheiser character.

What absolute cods. If they could sue him for having an opinion, (and they won't, as only today, the Senn rep has told him personally they have zero problem with his honesty), then he would be able to sue them for anti competitive practices, such as creating price disparity, and imposing restrictions on what products of theirs (that he has paid for and stocks), he can and can't display on his website - or even list their prices.

And it's perfectly obvious that his product descriptions are written by him as opinions, to suggest otherwise is just being obtuse. He buys in the stock, stores it, has listened to all of it, and is entitled to his opinion. As are people entitled to disagree with him.

I for one am sick of people jumping to the defense of their favourite Senn product, and senn themselves in the face of this kind of small business standover nonsense.

That it the real issue some of us are upset about, not, "Waaaah, Marcus doesn't like my headphone and all my friends think he's just horrible too..."

 

[pp312]

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Originally Posted by chinesekiwi /img/forum/go_quote.gif To defend Marcus, who I have a lot of respect for, that opinion is based off a lot of people's opinions. Also, since when aren't we allowed to post honest opinions on products?

You obviously didn't read my post properly. Opinion is fine. Opinion is in the forum section. When as an official retailer of a product you place that opinion next to a picture of the product, with the price, it become something more than an opinion. I think Marcus' opinions on the 595 and 650 are off the wall, but that's beside the point. What I'm concerned with is that he seems to be actively dissuading people from buying these products.

Oh, and as for Marcus' opinion being based on a lot of other people's opinions, for every person who considers the 595 to have "harsh" treble I could find 10 who think it doesn't.

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Originally Posted by chinesekiwi /img/forum/go_quote.gif Also pp312, don't be a lawyer. Stick to your day job.

Don't be childish. My remark was obviously tongue-in-cheek.

As for the rest of your post, I've read the quote you've included, and I've read many of the forums, and I stick by what I've said. If Marcus merely answered queries with his opinion, that would be one thing. But posting his opinions beside his listings is something else.

 

[Drubbing]

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Originally Posted by pp312 /img/forum/go_quote.gif As for the rest of your post, I've read the quote you've included, and I've read many of the forums, and I stick by what I've said. If Marcus merely answered queries with his opinion, that would be one thing. But posting his opinions beside his listings is something else.

Go and start your own business.

Then sell/promote/push products to people that you don't believe to be the best for them, when you have stock of something else that is more suited to their needs.

Good luck in retaining any customers whatsoever.

 

[pp312]

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Originally Posted by Drubbing /img/forum/go_quote.gif What absolute cods. If they could sue him for having an opinion, (and they won't, as only today, the Senn rep has told him personally they have zero problem with his honesty), then he would be able to sue them for anti competitive practices, such as creating price disparity, and imposing restrictions on what products of theirs (that he has paid for and stocks), he can and can't display on his website - or even list their prices.

Remind me to put a huge smiley next to every throwaway line, will you? I can't believe at least two people took that seriously. And frankly, I don't care that Sennheiser choose to be tolerant--good for them; they're obviously not the demons they're being made out to be here. I'm speaking for myself, not Sennheiser.


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Originally Posted by Drubbing /img/forum/go_quote.gif And it's perfectly obvious that his product descriptions are written by him as opinions, to suggest otherwise is just being obtuse.

No, it isn't obvious; that's my point. Are you seriously suggesting that a casual buyer checking the price of a 595 on Headphonic wouldn't be put off by Marcus' description? I certainly would be. Indeed, if I hadn't already owned a pair when I first read it, I'd never have bought them, not after that. That's my objection. That, and the fact that his opinion is not even a general consensus; his is the only place on the Web where I've ever read that the 595 was harsh. Maybe he should just put, "Hey, they're not to my taste, but thousands love 'em".

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Originally Posted by Drubbing /img/forum/go_quote.gif I for one am sick of people jumping to the defense of their favourite Senn product, and senn themselves in the face of this kind of small business standover nonsense. That it the real issue some of us are upset about, not, "Waaaah, Marcus doesn't like my headphone and all my friends think he's just horrible too..."

Well, I've just said that my opinion of Sennheiser phones is beside the point. I'm not defending Sennheiser phones per se. As it happens, I don't care for the 580 and 600s at all. I'm just concerned at people being misdirected by what is, frankly, a renegade opinion.

 

[savi0]

I think people keep missing the point of this thread. As Marcus has said in the thread over at Headphonic, this isn't about his reviews or such but about Sennheiser increasing the prices of their products in Oz. Simple as that. It affects all online retailers. I'm from the States living in Oz and found the prices of Head-Direct, Alessandro, Shure and some Audio Technica's to be around the same price range when converted to US currency but Sennheiser, AKG, and Beyerdynamics seem to be charging extremely exorbitant prices compared to the US market. I don't think that's fair. I have the luxury to go back to the States and bring over a headphone at a better price but not everyone has that luxury. Considering that Audio Junkie, Wicked Digital and DJ Warehouse (other Oz online retailers) all stock Sennheisers, they are all subject to price increases, not just Headphonic. Marcus has a forum to voice his displeasure and let the customers know about upcoming price changes whereas other retailers may not be as forthcoming and increase prices without any notice. I for one appreciate his disclosure.

 

[Ruffle]

It's completely ludicrous comparing Marcus's rants against various headphones as a DEALER than another headphone aficionado on Head-Fi and elsewhere.

But Sennheiser telling Marcus to sell at prices that retail stores can compete with, I see no problem with that.

I personally like this idea. I want it to spread to other products also. I PREFER going to a store, holding the product in my hand, talking to a more knowledgable representative in person about the product. I like looking and demoing, then going home to think it over. Go back to the store to confirm my initial decisions and then BUY the product from the representative who was nice enough to help me make my decision. And it would be nice to do so without having to find out some discount store warehouse selling at half the price. So I support the decisions of Denon, and if Sennheiser continues to do so in other countries, Ultrasone, Grado and probably AKG soon if this trend keeps up.

Also just plain fair, so someone in Australia example doesn't have to feel discriminated for living there forced to pay those prices. We all pay the same price regardless where we buy headphones. Awesome concept.

 

[estreeter]

Ruffle, you are living in some kind of 1950s fantasy world. The rest of us have to make do with reality.

 

[Drubbing]

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Originally Posted by Ruffle /img/forum/go_quote.gif But Sennheiser telling Marcus to sell at prices that retail stores can compete with, I see no problem with that. I personally like this idea. I want it to spread to other products also. I PREFER going to a store, holding the product in my hand, talking to a more knowledgable representative in person about the product. I like looking and demoing, then going home to think it over. Go back to the store to confirm my initial decisions and then BUY the product from the representative who was nice enough to help me make my decision. And it would be nice to do so without having to find out some discount store warehouse selling at half the price.

So you want to pay more for all your audio?

And your comments show the hopeless grasp on this topic that you have.

The last time I called into Headphonic, there was 4 walls there, a door with the business name on it, and headphones inside, where customers like myself were listening to the 10 or more headphones on the demo bench, and Marcus was offering personal advice to those that had questions, demonstrating products, and letting people bring in their own DACs and amps to try out phones with. And he should be able to do all that, and sell the products for whatever margin covers his store and staffing overheads, and makes him some money. If that is less than the big store down the road, then well done him. But Senn won't let him.

So Headphonic isn't a retail store like the chain stores down the road who are getting the price breaks from Senn? The ones that won't let you hear any of the products, and who employ 16 year old kids that would rather be anywhere else but talking to you about headphones?

 

[Ruffle]

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Originally Posted by estreeter /img/forum/go_quote.gif Ruffle, you are living in some kind of 1950s fantasy world. The rest of us have to make do with reality.

So anyone who wants to go to a store and hear and handle their headphone before purchasing and talking to a representative is living in the 1950s? Either way doesn't matter considering already Ultrasone, Grado, and Denon have begun to weed out the discount stores and enforcing their dealers to charge prices closer to the MSRP. Denon going as far as to say they won't honor the warranty on ANY Denon headphone purchased from an un-authorized discount dealer. This is a trend that is reality and Sennheiser has begun with the HD800 and hopefully will continue with their other headphones. Beyerdynamics has been smart with not allowing discount stores an avenue into their Manufaktur customizations, no wonder why the DT770, DT880 Manufaktur are huge money makers for Beyerdynamics.

 

[Beefy]

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Originally Posted by Ruffle /img/forum/go_quote.gif So anyone who wants to go to a store and hear and handle their headphone before purchasing and talking to a representative is living in the 1950s? Either way doesn't matter considering already Ultrasone, Grado, and Denon have begun to weed out the discount stores and enforcing their dealers to charge prices closer to the MSRP. Denon going as far as to say they won't honor the warranty on ANY Denon headphone purchased from an un-authorized discount dealer. This is a trend that is reality and Sennheiser has begun with the HD800 and hopefully will continue with their other headphones. Beyerdynamics has been smart with not allowing discount stores an avenue into their Manufaktur customizations, no wonder why the DT770, DT880 Manufaktur are huge money makers for Beyerdynamics.

Your reading comprehension skills are SERIOUSLY lacking.

Headphonic is an authorised dealer for pretty much their entire product line. You can go in and handle the headphones. You get better information and lower prices from Headphonic than you do at the Hi-Fi retailer down the street. You cannot compare Headphonic to a dodgy discount outlet, nor can you compare the business to buying from a traditional (stone age) Hi-Fi store that charges RRP for everything, and is constantly trying to upsell.

Yet the distributor is deliberately allowing the Hi-Fi store to underperform and overcharge. The Hi-Fi don't want to compete, they want to profiteer, so they are whining to the distributor - who is caving due not to headphone sales, but the other stock lines that the Hi-Fi store also buys from them.

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Originally Posted by Ruffle /img/forum/go_quote.gif Either way I think Grado has been very smart about their relationship with retailers. Europeans can't buy Grado in US for the lower price. Every authorized dealer I've seen online sell at the same price as the non-online retailers. And because the price of Grados remain at the suggested prices, the perception of the quality and value of Grados remains high among the general public. Maybe some will disagree, but people who may not be as aware of Grado, looking prices will assume they are truly high quality, audiophile grade headphones, as they are regarded by many Grado owners.

Deliberately inflating the price over the rest of the world so that you sell less gear, just so an elite few can feel all warm and fuzzy about their premium product...... that is flat out dumb.

There is absolutely no justification for Grado's outright stupid distribution policy. Especially since Alessandro is able to ship similar models to the whole world at a flat rate price.

 

[jherbert]

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Originally Posted by Ruffle /img/forum/go_quote.gif ...Beyerdynamics has been smart with not allowing discount stores an avenue into their Manufaktur customizations, no wonder why the DT770, DT880 Manufaktur are huge money makers for Beyerdynamics.

Are they, or do you just suppose they are?

 

[wink]

Ruffle,
I think you should look at Moon Audio and see what their policy and prices on Beyer Manufactur DT880/990 is. No discounting,,,??

 

[Drubbing]

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Originally Posted by Ruffle /img/forum/go_quote.gif So anyone who wants to go to a store and hear and handle their headphone before purchasing and talking to a representative is living in the 1950s? Either way doesn't matter considering already Ultrasone, Grado, and Denon have begun to weed out the discount stores and enforcing their dealers to charge prices closer to the MSRP.

The big stores are only offering the chance to see the products. They know nothing about them. Plus they charge RRP, unless you ask on the quiet and you might save 10%, and lot of people don't ask.

In addition, as Beefy says, the specialist hi fi stores couldn't give a toss about headphones. Most in Australia, despite being authorised dealers for 2-3 brands or more, either don't carry stock, or won't let you demo the ones they have.

The farce here is that the 'established' stores are actually operating with same lack of service and advice the online outlets are accused of.

And whilst unrelated, Grado's o/s sales policy is dumb; how many sales have gone to Alessandro simply because people can't get Grado, or won't pay 2-3 times as much for them?

Because they operate together, these are stil sales for grado too, but I fail to see how his US distributors are 'protected' with this arrangement.

 

[charliex]

I'll just stick to tried and true used Senn phone purchases through Head-Fi or Audiogon - properly cared for phones are always worth the price since you're really only looking at new phones that have been thoroughly burned-in and will still meet one's sonic needs.