[Phronesis]

Volume is not Everything... My S9+ can easily make HD800S sound super loud, but it doesnt sound good at all.
P.S i think silver cables definitely add extension in both bass and highs and have faster sound, its more conductive after all. Also thicker cables can definitely deliver more bass. Read it from cable manufacturers and heard it myself.

A truly underpowered amp can drive a headphone loud, but it will distort and impact the sound. Once you have enough power, amps should sound the same unless they introduce their own 'coloration' (i.e., particular types of distortion).

I've never seen good data indicating that cables significantly and objectively affect sound, but expectations can certainly change how things seem to sound.

 

[prymortal]

This is an interesting discussion, but my narrow question is even more difficult to answer:

An HD800 with Dekoni calfskin pads VS
An HD800S.

In your opinion, is the upgrade to the HD800S significant enough to sell my old headphone and get a new one? Or is it one of those "incremental" upgrades? Irrespective of amping, the difference is around $600 or so.

Thanks for your help!

In my opinion No especially if you are happy with the sound. You could just buy the DuPont mod for $27 if you want to get an idea of the change & come back to tell me i'm wrong.... Its not the same but its close enough change to give You that answer.

 

[poikkeus]

In my opinion No especially if you are happy with the sound. You could just buy the DuPont mod for $27 if you want to get an idea of the change & come back to tell me i'm wrong.... Its not the same but its close enough change to give You that answer.

You make a good argument.

It makes sense to purchase an HD800S - but probably less so if you already own an HD800. From what I've read, the DuPont mod will help reduce the resonance, and without much effect on the Dekoni pads (which I already have). The biggest issue is an audiophile fact of life: some phones sound better with different types of music. Classical, punk, vintage pop, and reggae may require different headphones, and definitely call for different EQs. I doubt getting an HD800S will manage the different genres and sounds substantially better than the regular HD800 with the Dekoni pads.

But I'm willing to be swayed.....

 

[Quinto]

I sold my Violectric V200 and Audio_GD DAC19dsp because I wanted a pre-amp for my monitors and am now using a RME ADI-2 DAC.
I had this idea it would be great to have all these eq, digital filter, crossfeed and all the other options to make my HD800S sound the way I liked best.

So after weeks of fiddling around I seem to like my HD800S best with default filter (SD Sharp), without crossfeed, added bass, treble or EQ.
The one thing I really like is the width setting for some old stereo recordings to fill up the hole in the soundstage

Never heard my HD800S so darn clean..I'm treble sensitive but on the ADI-2 it's never harsh or glassy sounding. Great little amp-dac, great synergy with the Sennheiser.

 

[Brooko]

They might or might not be... How do you know that those files are not from the same master and are not transcoded properly? I don't know but you seem to be so shure.

Can you hear the difference on that site?

Edit. It seems like 4.5% got 5/6 right and 1.6% got 6/6

If I tried enough times - I could get those numbers too. The sample size is too small. The point is - you made a claim, and then stated something that invalidated it.

The link I left you allows you to conduct a controlled test using your own music so that you can find out for sure. If you use the AAC codec, I think the results will be surprising. I’ve found no-one so far who can distinguish aac256 from lossless in a controlled volume matched double blind test - using a statistically relevant number of iterations.

 

[Lay.]

If I tried enough times - I could get those numbers too. The sample size is too small. The point is - you made a claim, and then stated something that invalidated it.

I tried one time and got 6/6. I made a claim that with that test I could find a difference. I said that I don't know about coding etc of those files and you don't know it either so you don't know if it invalidates anything. I'm done with this pointless...

Like I said. I'm happy with spotify quality.

 

[vlach]

Once you have enough power, amps should sound the same unless they introduce their own 'coloration'

I have several amps and each one has more than enough power, yet they all sound different. This is through the same DAC.

And its not just coloration; differences include soundstage width and height, tonality, lean vs rich, articulation, detail level, resolution, etc...
A lot of this has to do with power supply implementation and design choices. For instance, the volume pot selection has an impact on sound.

Its a little bit like photography in the sense that all lenses are not created equal in terms of color rendition, 3D effect, detail, chromatic aberration, clarity, etc.

 

[Phronesis]

I have several amps and each one has more than enough power, yet they all sound different. This is through the same DAC.

And its not just coloration; differences include soundstage width and height, tonality, lean vs rich, articulation, detail level, resolution, etc...
A lot of this has to do with power supply implementation and design choices. For instance, the volume pot selection has an impact on sound.

Its a little bit like photography in the sense that all lenses are not created equal in terms of color rendition, 3D effect, detail, chromatic aberration, clarity, etc.

You may perceive them to sound different, but that's not the same as them actually objectively sounding different. Establishing the latter is quite difficult.

 

[vlach]

You may perceive them to sound different, but that's not the same as them actually objectively sounding different. Establishing the latter is quite difficult.

I agree to disagree. Been doing this for over 30 years.

 

[Phronesis]

I agree to disagree. Been doing this for over 30 years.

Doesn't matter how long someone has been doing it, the susceptibility to misperceiving things is wired into us.

 

[vlach]

Doesn't matter how long someone has been doing it, the susceptibility to misperceiving things is wired into us.

Sometimes but not always.

 

[joseph69]

And its not just coloration; differences include soundstage width and height, tonality, lean vs rich, articulation, detail level, resolution, etc...
A lot of this has to do with power supply implementation and design choices. For instance, the volume pot selection has an impact on sound.

+1

 

[poikkeus]

I sold my Violectric V200 and Audio_GD DAC19dsp because I wanted a pre-amp for my monitors and am now using a RME ADI-2 DAC.
I had this idea it would be great to have all these eq, digital filter, crossfeed and all the other options to make my HD800S sound the way I liked best.

So after weeks of fiddling around I seem to like my HD800S best with default filter (SD Sharp), without crossfeed, added bass, treble or EQ.
The one thing I really like is the width setting for some old stereo recordings to fill up the hole in the soundstage

Never heard my HD800S so darn clean..I'm treble sensitive but on the ADI-2 it's never harsh or glassy sounding. Great little amp-dac, great synergy with the Sennheiser.

That's where I'd like to be - a good amp and clean sound, without harshness or strange artifacts.

But I've learned a few things here: (1) one thing that will substantially improve sound is top-notch amplification, (2) mods may make things better, but rarely solve an audio issue entirely, and (3) dollar for dollar, there aren't too many solutions better than the HD800.

 

[peter123]

You may perceive them to sound different, but that's not the same as them actually objectively sounding different. Establishing the latter is quite difficult.

Are you serious?

 

[Ichos]

I have been to the hobby for more than 20 years two channel guy mostly and headphone user too for the last 5 years.
I am also a reviewer for a local hifi printed magazine so I have the chance to listen to a lot of gear.
I have never heard a DAC or an amp to sound the same as another one.
Every model even the most linear or neutral has its own sound signature.
One obvious example are the vioelectric v100 and v200.
They measure exactly the same and are dead flat.
But they do sound different and its very easy to hear the differences no need for a/b testing , blind tests etc.