[Focux]

Re: the sound, it does take an adjustment from the 650s - I also can’t stress enough the fact that the 800\S takes EQ extremely well so you could do some pretty good tuning.
Re: the build quality - I must say the first time I got them, I felt similar but 2 + years later, they look exactly as they did on day one and the best thing is that they completely disappear on my head after a few minutes. The giant cups to me were a blessing, hard to find something that fits with a giant head and fat ears...

If you’re looking for a direct upgrade to the 650s, try out the Focal clear, it’ll be very similar but a little better, not 3 times better though. If I didn’t have the 800S, I would still be perfectly happy with the 650 as my end game.

I use the HDV820 with my senns - it’s amazing transparency which is unfortunately not suited for every track... one definitelly needs less technically inclined sets where mushier sound helps remove the edges. It’s like the HD800S is a 4K OLED screen, feed it the right content an you’ll cry with joy... feed it low def content and you’ll be crying with sadness ...

Cheers,

I had shortlisted the AFO, MX4 (b stock), Aeolus, LCD X, 2, and Clear as well along with 800S. Where I am, 800S is actually cheaper at abt USD1300 and Clear USD1400. X & 2 abt the same.

Frankly after getting the Atom I find the improvements it made to 650 so significant that from memory, other cans I tried are not that much better (like 2-3 times for their price).

Admittedly, I do like the Clear’s accessories a lot (case and cables). But am concerned abt corrosion issue and durability. Unlike the 800 and 600 series where each part is more easily replaceable and available when making a warranty claim.

I presume that also makes the 800S a more compelling option

 

[headblid]

Amen to that, I want to say forums made me do it but truth is that I failed to properly interpret the stuff I was reading on forums for a long time and learned an exensive lesson. There are master wordsmiths at work on forums that make you lust after gear and you fall down a rabbit hole before you know it.
These days, I tend to dilute impressions I read online 5 times over then go for a listening session before buying anything .

You should like your setup, as it’s a good one and your server is decent and your server interests me as thats the way im heading, server land.

If I had a TT before TT2 came out, I would of stayed with TT and would only upgrade when TT3 or 4 came out. Skipping a generation or 2, as thats what I do with my computers.

I think incremental and expensive dac upgrades are a waste of money. But thats just my opinion.

I don’t think you’ve seen the last of the HD650 yet, that thing is a rubber band that keeps on stretching as you throw better gear at it. For people that like the sound signature, it often becomes a permanent stop even after picking up more expensive cans.
I find that there are a few cliffs of dismissing returns with cans, the HD6X0 series is where the biggest one is for me.

The more expensive gear is usually never worth 3 to 4 times more, but just like every other hobby, you find something you can’t do without every once in a while, sipped of transients, sub bass, mid range, build quality, comfort, etc., and you just have to have it so you pay a little more.

I had both the Clear for a while. It felt like a true successor of the HD650 but didn’t scale as well, it’s more consistent in giving almost top performance on anything which is I guess a good thing.
I sold them for three reasons:
First, unproven reliability, there were early stories of failed drivers\coils. I believe this is is fixed now.
Second, those ear pads... they get stained with skin oil and sweat, it’s almost as if focal didn’t do a long term test on real skin so after a few weeks, everything still looks new on the clear but you have this darker spot on the top side of the pads that goes against your face. It makes the pads look like chocolate dip donuts! I’ll pick one up again when there are pads that are darker where this effect won’t be as pronounced.
Last, the non transferable warranty and the fact that you have to go through a dealer is just a hassle. This compounded with the early reliability concerns made me question owning them vs something like the HD800S.

I probably over analyzed that whole situation but I felt like too many things to worry about after spending +1000$, compared to what my old HD600 and 650 went through after 10+ years of ownership, I got rid of the Clear for now.

And yes, they won’t put your HD650 to shame or anything like that, they’ll be a slight improvement at best but most likely just a different flavour you might or might not enjoy.

I had shortlisted the AFO, MX4 (b stock), Aeolus, LCD X, 2, and Clear as well along with 800S. Where I am, 800S is actually cheaper at abt USD1300 and Clear USD1400. X & 2 abt the same.

Frankly after getting the Atom I find the improvements it made to 650 so significant that from memory, other cans I tried are not that much better (like 2-3 times for their price).

Admittedly, I do like the Clear’s accessories a lot (case and cables). But am concerned abt corrosion issue and durability. Unlike the 800 and 600 series where each part is more easily replaceable and available when making a warranty claim.

I presume that also makes the 800S a more compelling option

 

[Focux]

Amen to that, I want to say forums made me do it but truth is that I failed to properly interpret the stuff I was reading on forums for a long time and learned an exensive lesson. There are master wordsmiths at work on forums that make you lust after gear and you fall down a rabbit hole before you know it.
These days, I tend to dilute impressions I read online 5 times over then go for a listening session before buying anything .




I don’t think you’ve seen the last of the HD650 yet, that thing is a rubber band that keeps on stretching as you throw better gear at it. For people that like the sound signature, it often becomes a permanent stop even after picking up more expensive cans.
I find that there are a few cliffs of dismissing returns with cans, the HD6X0 series is where the biggest one is for me.

The more expensive gear is usually never worth 3 to 4 times more, but just like every other hobby, you find something you can’t do without every once in a while, sipped of transients, sub bass, mid range, build quality, comfort, etc., and you just have to have it so you pay a little more.

I had both the Clear for a while. It felt like a true successor of the HD650 but didn’t scale as well, it’s more consistent in giving almost top performance on anything which is I guess a good thing.
I sold them for three reasons:
First, unproven reliability, there were early stories of failed drivers\coils. I believe this is is fixed now.
Second, those ear pads... they get stained with skin oil and sweat, it’s almost as if focal didn’t do a long term test on real skin so after a few weeks, everything still looks new on the clear but you have this darker spot on the top side of the pads that goes against your face. It makes the pads look like chocolate dip donuts! I’ll pick one up again when there are pads that are darker where this effect won’t be as pronounced.
Last, the non transferable warranty and the fact that you have to go through a dealer is just a hassle. This compounded with the early reliability concerns made me question owning them vs something like the HD800S.

I probably over analyzed that whole situation but I felt like too many things to worry about after spending +1000$, compared to what my old HD600 and 650 went through after 10+ years of ownership, I got rid of the Clear for now.

And yes, they won’t put your HD650 to shame or anything like that, they’ll be a slight improvement at best but most likely just a different flavour you might or might not enjoy.

Hahahahaha chocolate chip donuts lolol

Thank you for sharing! It makes sense and though I do not own the Clear or other mentioned previously, I agree

 

[Arniesb]

Amen to that, I want to say forums made me do it but truth is that I failed to properly interpret the stuff I was reading on forums for a long time and learned an exensive lesson. There are master wordsmiths at work on forums that make you lust after gear and you fall down a rabbit hole before you know it.
These days, I tend to dilute impressions I read online 5 times over then go for a listening session before buying anything .




I don’t think you’ve seen the last of the HD650 yet, that thing is a rubber band that keeps on stretching as you throw better gear at it. For people that like the sound signature, it often becomes a permanent stop even after picking up more expensive cans.
I find that there are a few cliffs of dismissing returns with cans, the HD6X0 series is where the biggest one is for me.

The more expensive gear is usually never worth 3 to 4 times more, but just like every other hobby, you find something you can’t do without every once in a while, sipped of transients, sub bass, mid range, build quality, comfort, etc., and you just have to have it so you pay a little more.

I had both the Clear for a while. It felt like a true successor of the HD650 but didn’t scale as well, it’s more consistent in giving almost top performance on anything which is I guess a good thing.
I sold them for three reasons:
First, unproven reliability, there were early stories of failed drivers\coils. I believe this is is fixed now.
Second, those ear pads... they get stained with skin oil and sweat, it’s almost as if focal didn’t do a long term test on real skin so after a few weeks, everything still looks new on the clear but you have this darker spot on the top side of the pads that goes against your face. It makes the pads look like chocolate dip donuts! I’ll pick one up again when there are pads that are darker where this effect won’t be as pronounced.
Last, the non transferable warranty and the fact that you have to go through a dealer is just a hassle. This compounded with the early reliability concerns made me question owning them vs something like the HD800S.

I probably over analyzed that whole situation but I felt like too many things to worry about after spending +1000$, compared to what my old HD600 and 650 went through after 10+ years of ownership, I got rid of the Clear for now.

And yes, they won’t put your HD650 to shame or anything like that, they’ll be a slight improvement at best but most likely just a different flavour you might or might not enjoy.

I know right lol. Durability is not in Focal's mind it seems, how you make high end headphones whitout easily changeable headband... These days i miss HD650 a lot, but every time i listened it something with sub bass i hated them. Great sound, but damn that bass was lacking.
HD800S while not as boomy in midbass, but have so much better sub bass.
Seriously if Sennheiser filled out mids, add slightly more weight in bass for next flagship then they gonna sell it like hot cakes.

 

[poikkeus]

Here's my question - and I'm certain someone here has an answer.

I'm an early adopter of the HD800 (#595), and last year, I replaced the deteriorating foam pads for the Dekoni calf-skin pads. The difference, before and after Dekoni, has been quite noticeable, especially in the mid-bass.
However, I keep reading that the HD800S is a substantial upgrade, improving the smoothness and adding a bit of bass. Based on your experience, would I do better to stay with the HD800 with the Dekoni pads, or upgrade to the HD800S? Would Dekoni pads further improve the HD800S?

Thanks for your wisdom!

 

[Arniesb]

Here's my question - and I'm certain someone here has an answer.

I'm an early adopter of the HD800 (#595), and last year, I replaced the deteriorating foam pads for the Dekoni calf-skin pads. The difference, before and after Dekoni, has been quite noticeable, especially in the mid-bass.
However, I keep reading that the HD800S is a substantial upgrade, improving the smoothness and adding a bit of bass. Based on your experience, would I do better to stay with the HD800 with the Dekoni pads, or upgrade to the HD800S? Would Dekoni pads further improve the HD800S?

Thanks for your wisdom!

If u dont want to mod or EQ then HD800S is better cause it adress highs of HD800. Keep in mind that it still need little warm from amp or copper cables.

 

[Brooko]

To each his own. Some cant hear difference between mp3 and flacs some cant hear difference between cables etc. Heard mojo, black label and these have have worse amp sections than Adi 2 dac, topping dx7, Beyerdynamic a20 and lot worse than Violectric V280. Even then V280 while its excellent pairing, but HD800S can scale even more. I love HD800S and i know it can get better so im gonna save up for Niimbus amp to get best performance possible out of it. Ofcourse more expensive amps is better because better parts, better implementations, better power supplies, balanced topology. Especially dacs which are very sensitive to noise need great power supplies, well implemented circuitry, good clocks.
Its like saying odac will sound as good as best dacs, because it measure well.

Agree - to each his own. I can't hear the difference between aac256 and FLAC (when using same master, transcoded properly, volume matched, and in a double-blind) - mind you neither has anyone else when performed in a properly controlled test. I also can't hear a difference between cables - as long as both cables are properly specced, and there are no obvious impedance issues.

I'd love to be able to test your ability when performed in a properly controlled manner - but I'd suggest it would be a waste of time for both of us. If you're deriving pleasure from your search to nirvana and believe there are differences, then who am I to comment.

I will re-iterate though, the iDSD has more than enough power and voltage output to properly drive the HD800S. That is a statement of fact. And if you wanted to cross-check this, a simple check of Sennheiser's released specifications will confirm it.

 

[Brooko]

If u dont want to mod or EQ then HD800S is better cause it adress highs of HD800. Keep in mind that it still need little warm from amp or copper cables.

Copper cables (unless out of spec - ie drastically changing impedance), will not add measurable warmth to an HD800.

 

[Brooko]

The great thing about the HD800S is it scales with better source material, DACs and amps. A more expensive, resolving DAC and amp can certainly provide a significant improvement in sound quality and listening enjoyment. My Yggdrasil has two sets of single ended outputs so I did a quick experiment comparing SQ using my $2500 Kenzie to my $200 Vali 2.

Using Eric Clapton's 24/196 "Slowhand" I listened to "Lay Down Sally" through both amps with levels matched. The difference in sound quality between the two amps is not subtle at all. The Vali 2 sounds hazy and veiled compared to the Kenzie. Soundstage is two dimensional, flat, and imaging is not precise.

Switching to the Kenzie clarity is significantly improved, imagine wiping the film off a dirty window. I can easily hear deeper into the recording. More details are readily heard and the sound stage is wider and deeper, with precise localization of instruments and voices. I can hear echoes and reverb trails with the Kenzie that are lost in the mix using the Vali 2 and there is more air around voices and instruments.

Listening with the Kenzie is much more enjoyable than with the Vali 2. I tell friends who are getting into headphones seriously to buy the HD800S and economize on the DAC and amp knowing that they will only enjoy the HD800S more as they can afford to buy a better DAC/amp.

Unfortunately you did not answer (or IMO add to) the original discussion. We were talking about the iDSD (a solid state amp which can deliver up to 166 mW at 8V into the 300 ohm HD800/S). You're talking about two tube amps - with drastically differing tube stages and using that as an explanation why more expensive = better? Yes - they sound different. And perceived soundstage and imaging is a property of the headphone - not the amp. How did you volume match and was the test sighted?

But back to the original discussion - ArniesB stated:
"Im affraid its not gonna cut it. HD800S sound average on such dac/amp. It is very transparent so it is easy to see faults of dacs or amps. It need great dac and more importantly high end amp." when referring to the HD800S on the iDSD.

Have you heard the HD800S out of the iDSD? I own one - and an HD800S. I can assure you - it has no problem with power or voltage output.

Do I sometimes prefer the tonality of my VE Enterprise statement tube amp? Yes - but that is preference and tonality.

 

[Arniesb]

Unfortunately you did not answer (or IMO add to) the original discussion. We were talking about the iDSD (a solid state amp which can deliver up to 166 mW at 8V into the 300 ohm HD800/S). You're talking about two tube amps - with drastically differing tube stages and using that as an explanation why more expensive = better? Yes - they sound different. And perceived soundstage and imaging is a property of the headphone - not the amp. How did you volume match and was the test sighted?

But back to the original discussion - ArniesB stated:
"Im affraid its not gonna cut it. HD800S sound average on such dac/amp. It is very transparent so it is easy to see faults of dacs or amps. It need great dac and more importantly high end amp." when referring to the HD800S on the iDSD.

Have you heard the HD800S out of the iDSD? I own one - and an HD800S. I can assure you - it has no problem with power or voltage output.

Do I sometimes prefer the tonality of my VE Enterprise statement tube amp? Yes - but that is preference and tonality.

Volume is not Everything... My S9+ can easily make HD800S sound super loud, but it doesnt sound good at all.
P.S i think silver cables definitely add extension in both bass and highs and have faster sound, its more conductive after all. Also thicker cables can definitely deliver more bass. Read it from cable manufacturers and heard it myself.

 

[Lay.]

Agree - to each his own. I can't hear the difference between aac256 and FLAC (when using same master, transcoded properly, volume matched, and in a double-blind) - mind you neither has anyone else when performed in a properly controlled test. I also can't hear a difference between cables - as long as both cables are properly specced, and there are no obvious impedance issues.

I'd love to be able to test your ability when performed in a properly controlled manner - but I'd suggest it would be a waste of time for both of us. If you're deriving pleasure from your search to nirvana and believe there are differences, then who am I to comment.

I will re-iterate though, the iDSD has more than enough power and voltage output to properly drive the HD800S. That is a statement of fact. And if you wanted to cross-check this, a simple check of Sennheiser's released specifications will confirm it.

I did not believe I could hear the difference between 320kbps and uncompressed audio. After testing it turned out that I can. Ps. I don't know if they have the same master and transcoded properly.

Does it mean that I only want to listen uncompressed files? No. I still enjoy my music mostly from spotify. The difference is not that big that I would care much.

https://www.npr.org/sections/therecord/2015/06/02/411473508/how-well-can-you-hear-audio-quality

 

[Deftone]

Volume is not Everything... My S9+ can easily make HD800S sound super loud, but it doesnt sound good at all.
P.S i think silver cables definitely add extension in both bass and highs and have faster sound, its more conductive after all. Also thicker cables can definitely deliver more bass. Read it from cable manufacturers and heard it myself.

Expectation bias?

 

[Brooko]

I did not believe I could hear the difference between 320kbps and uncompressed audio. After testing it turned out that I can. Ps. I don't know if they have the same master and transcoded properly.

Does it mean that I only want to listen uncompressed files? No. I still enjoy my music mostly from spotify. The difference is not that big that I would care much.

https://www.npr.org/sections/therecord/2015/06/02/411473508/how-well-can-you-hear-audio-quality

The red statement and blue statement contradict each other.

Tools are free if you ever want to do it properly

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/set...-guide-to-ripping-tagging-transcoding.655879/

 

[Lay.]

The red statement and blue statement contradict each other.

Tools are free if you ever want to do it properly

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/set...-guide-to-ripping-tagging-transcoding.655879/

They might or might not be... How do you know that those files are not from the same master and are not transcoded properly? I don't know but you seem to be so shure.

Can you hear the difference on that site?

Edit. It seems like 4.5% got 5/6 right and 1.6% got 6/6

 

[poikkeus]

This is an interesting discussion, but my narrow question is even more difficult to answer:

An HD800 with Dekoni calfskin pads VS
An HD800S.

In your opinion, is the upgrade to the HD800S significant enough to sell my old headphone and get a new one? Or is it one of those "incremental" upgrades? Irrespective of amping, the difference is around $600 or so.

Thanks for your help!