[Lay.]

I would not buy HD800S to use them only with something like M11. Even though my portable FiiO Q5 and AM3B can drive them Ok and sounds nice... there is a difference when using proper dac/amp to drive them. Just my personal opinion.

 

[Hifiearspeakers]

I would not buy HD800S to use them only with something like M11. Even though my portable FiiO Q5 and AM3B can drive them Ok and sounds nice... there is a difference when using proper dac/amp to drive them. Just my personal opinion.

First of all, the balanced output of the M11 is more powerful than the balanced output of the Q5 with AM3B amp module.

Second, even if the 800S will scale better with a more powerful amp, it doesn’t mean it won’t sound very good with the M11. Honestly, it doesn’t even sound bad with a dragonfly Red, and the M11 is much more powerful than that at 300 ohms.

 

[Caguioa]

is there a portable dap/amp out there that can drive hd800s?

and as for m11...what amp (portable) should be paired with an hd800s

 

[Hifiearspeakers]

is there a portable dap/amp out there that can drive hd800s?

and as for m11...what amp (portable) should be paired with an hd800s

That was just answered a few posts back.

 

[vlach]

They will certainly play and be heard with Fiio M11 but it won't do them justice.
I use them with Fiio Q5 which is louder than M11 and yes sure they go quite loud but they are stripped of dynamics
and wouldn't call the result ideal.
HD800s need large voltage swings to be at their best.

Now of course if M11 is you only amp . sure you can use them out of the balanced out but when you
are going to try them with a ''manly'' amp then you will know what i am talking about.

Well said.

 

[Caguioa]

would the new Fiio Q5 + m11 drive 800S

 

[Ichos]

There is no point in that as the Q5 is a dac amp and M11 is already great sounding.
You should start with M11 and then decide for your path.
May be add then a more powerful portable amp like x can.
Are you planning to use them on the go or is it real estate problem?

 

[Caguioa]

seeing if i need an AMP to go with M11
currently have Shure 846 to go along with it, i hear alot of good things on xcan

The reason is i was seeing if i can also use the xcan on my pc and if it will still work with hd800s, but an full size amp is what brings out the hd800s even better.

 

[Brooko]

ill look into those,

@Brooko but on based on what u said, m11+hd800s should be fine? how does it sound?
if not,but what are some "portable" amps i need to look for so that it can drive the M11+ HD800s?

Ideally look for something which has a voltage output greater than 4.5 Vrms (about 13 Vp-p) to drive them well enough (see the table I left). You don't need to push them to the "painful" or 120 dB level - you'd never listen to them that loud. The problem is that few manufacturers publish full specs - so it may be a matter of getting some suggestions (like those listed earlier). Just listen to people you can trust (check their previous experience).

As to the M11 - I'm listening to it now - HD800S via balanced out. The only issue is that to get to a decent listening level with well recorded classical, you'll find yourself at least at 70-80/120 on the pot, and that doesn't leave a lot of head-room. It sounds great - no bass issues (despite what others say).

I made the suggestion before, and I'll re-iterate again. For desktop - look at the iFi Micro iDSD - small footprint, drives practically anything, and can be used transportably if you need to. And if you just want to move around the house - use the M11 - it sounds great with the HD800S.

If you get the iDSD, and later want to add other components, you can keep it as a desktop DAC, and add as required. For instance, I have the iDSD + iTube for my active speakers, and go from the iTube to the VE Enterprise (statement tube amp) for my headphones (depending on my mood at the time).

If you wanted a cheap portable amp - take a look at the FiiO A5. It has higher power output (150mW into 300 ohm) and voltage (almost 15Vp-p) so powering the HD800S is not an issue (SE rather than balanced). But you'll get more long term mileage with the iDSD.

 

[Brooko]

On the same topic as Caguioa, regarding connecting a DAP to Headphone Amp:

Is it true that you can't use a balanced line out from a portable DAP to a Headphone Amp? I was about to purchase a TRRS balanced cable out to dual 3-pin XLRs but in the feedback section someone mentioned it may cause hum. I've searched online and it mentioned something about grounding but I don't quite understand.

What is the amp you are intending going to, and what is your source.

 

[Brooko]

They will certainly play and be heard with Fiio M11 but it won't do them justice.
I use them with Fiio Q5 which is louder than M11 and yes sure they go quite loud but they are stripped of dynamics
and wouldn't call the result ideal.
HD800s need large voltage swings to be at their best.

Now of course if M11 is you only amp . sure you can use them out of the balanced out but when you
are going to try them with a ''manly'' amp then you will know what i am talking about.

OK - what does "do them justice mean?". And the Q5 with which amplifier module please. I have the Q5, all the amp modules, so I can do side-by-side tests with some of the more powerful gear I have - including the VE Enterprise. I can also assure you that the M11 does not "strip them of dynamics". As its clear you haven't heard them with the M11 - can you please refrain from making claims on gear you haven't heard.

How much voltage do the HD800S need to be "at their best". Please quote the number and your reasoning.

Drives them is different than just playing a little loud.

Using underpowered gear with HD800/s is among the reasons why some people keep bitching about them not being a good headphone and
blah blah....

Don't forget that at 100Hz they peak at 700Ohms , the amp needs fast voltage swings for them to sound good.

Actually at 100 Hz (resonant peak), they are the easiest to drive. Its moving the drivers past this resonant peak that requires higher voltage. And I would contend again that an output of 4.5 Vrms or more should be enough to easily drive the HD800S to listenable levels. I won't deny that many people like using Tubes with an HD800S. And Tubes provide a much higher voltage swing (usually at the expense of current). But the dynamics people talk about are usually confusion with synergy. Tubes by default distort (2nd order harmonics), which many of us find audibly pleasing . I know I do. But confusing preference (usually for tonality) with ability to drive is at best misleading.

 

[Ichos]

I have never stated that I own or heard Fiio M11.
I am referring to the published specs.
I own Fiio Q5 with the default module and I have heard the HD800 balanced only once as I don't own 2.5mm cable for them and I didn't like it as it was struggling with classical music.
And I am not reffing to the sound as I like very much the Q5 with HD58x and 660s.
The same applies to the X5iii I also have.

Now from an objective point of view you are right this portable devices can play with the HD800.
But with demanding program they will be always at their full potential and will be clipping / distorting.
They will be good with some pop or Krall but that's it.
Try to listen to some pictures at an exhibition and then switch to a good amplifier and hear the difference.
Tubes and personal tastes were never mentioned we are talking here about driving ability and headroom which mostly affects the large dynamic changes , headroom and bass impact.
I don't know maybe I am hearing too loud and I am listening exclusive to classical music so your mileage may vary.
All of these portable devices are optimised to deliver high current at low loads.
HD800 are well served with amps delivering high voltage at high Z like for example Valhalla or violectric stuff.
Headphones are the same as two channel audio.
You need almost double the power for your listening volume in order to have sufficient headroom.
All these may be accused of being subjective but that's my opinion.
Now please keep in mind that the guy who asked the question doesn't own the HD800.
In my opinion it is in the wrong way for someone to buy them to be used only with a portable underpowered device.
That's a waste of an excellent headphone.
Sooner or later he will find them missing...
There are other headphones that will serve him better.

So to end this
From a technical and objective point of view yes it is OK you are 100% right but from a subjective point of view for me the experience will always will be lacking.

 

[Lay.]

First of all, the balanced output of the M11 is more powerful than the balanced output of the Q5 with AM3B amp module.

Second, even if the 800S will scale better with a more powerful amp, it doesn’t mean it won’t sound very good with the M11. Honestly, it doesn’t even sound bad with a dragonfly Red, and the M11 is much more powerful than that at 300 ohms.

Yes. M11 has 18.5mW more power than AM3B. I use my HD800S with a amp that has 871,5mW more power than M11 @ 300 ohms and higher voltage.

As I said. Even Q5 AM3B can drive them Ok and sounds nice.

I'm well aware that some people think that for example a phone is good enough to drive HD660S since it gets loud enough. Some think that all the amps sound the same. I'm not one of those but I can respect other opinions. That's why I said "Just my personal opinion".

 

[Brooko]

But with demanding program they will be always at their full potential and will be clipping / distorting.
They will be good with some pop or Krall but that's it.
Try to listen to some pictures at an exhibition and then switch to a good amplifier and hear the difference.

Just stop OK. I'm fine with subjective opinions - but these sorts of claims don't help anyone.

1. The HD800S has never clipped or distorted with the M11 so far - and they ranges from classical and jazz through to grunge and rock
2. And that cast off comment about pop and Krall isn't appreciated. Ever heard the album "The Girl In The Other Room"? Beautifully recorded, and definitely one of Krall's better albums IMO. I don't ever denigrate anyone for listening to music I don't like. Somehow suggesting Pop and Krall is substandard is beneath the ideals of this board. Any music can sound great on the HD800S - and it doesn't need a mega amp to do it.
   http://dr.loudness-war.info/album/list?artist=&album=the+girl+in+the+other+room
   
3. Here's the point - I have listened to the HD800S switching from the M11 to my desktop set-up. Its not a huge difference. People go on about night and day changes - IMO because they convince themselves they exist. Try a volume matched double blind. Then we'll talk

And just so you know - nothing personal in this. I just hate it when people make outlandish claims as fact. Especially when I know the claims are incorrect.

Can the HD800S scale with a really good amp - yes, of course (within limits). But it's not the difference between a Mini and a Ferrari

 

[Ichos]

Please don't jump into early conclusions.
Never meant to offend or criticize anyone for listening preferences.
Pop was mentioned because it is usually very loud recorded and Krall because it is usually used for "system" listening and evaluation especially because it is well recorded but with limited instruments and dynamics so it always sound's good!
FYI I have been listening to Krall from day one owning all the discography before she became a verve star.

As for the other my opinion stays the same!
But happy to be arguing with all due respect as I have been following your reviews for years now.