Bingo! The hd800 has a bass response that is just shy of neutral and the hd800S is closer to my ears. I hope no one thinks the hd800S is like the hd650 is to the hd600, because nothing could be further from the truth.
Sennheiser HD800 S Impressions Thread (read first post for summary)
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Bingo! The hd800 has a bass response that is just shy of neutral and the hd800S is closer to my ears. I hope no one thinks the hd800S is like the hd650 is to the hd600, because nothing could be further from the truth.
Mike F
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Sorrodje
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HD800S review :English version of what I wrote in French here : http://www.tellementnomade.org/feedback-hd800s-s-comme-superieur-ou-pas/ . @shabta fixed my flawed english . Thanks to him for the kind help 
About Me: I bought my HD800 in 2013 and my HD800S to Jan Meier in december 2015. I listen mostly to Acoustics, jazz , classical and EDMs. Not much vocals , Rock, Metal, Pop. So, please, take the review with the usual Grain of Salt. Maybe my impressions can't be related to yours. Headphones I owned or I reviewed are in my profile.
Package, Look and Feel,
For people who are already familiar with the HD800, there is nothing surprising here: Same kind of box, same single ended cable, but a balanced cable has been added into the package. The connectors are now black.
For the headphone itself, with the exception of the color scheme, nothing changed at all: Same frame, same pads, same grills, same dust covers… Even the name is unchanged on the headband. The only apparently new thing is the S/N. My HD800 is #17002 and my HD800S is the #493.
The main change appears when we remove the dust covers: in the center of the web behind the driver appears the famous Helmholtz resonator:
Compared to my HD800 without the resonator:
What is a Helmholtz resonator? Thanks goes to Pietcux who linked to the answer in the HD800 thread: See this video which explains how this sort of resonator works.
Measurements:
Measurements were taken on a DIY coupler + Mini DSP UMIK-1 microphone + REW. These measurements are only comparable with ones made on the same rig and shouldn't be compared to other measurements coming from other sources. No compensation was applied.
As you can see, the measured FR can be significantly different depending upon the relative position of headphone and mic. Therefore, I have provided the entire group of raw measurements as well as the Average FR.
HD800S average FR with all raw takes
HD800S Average R and L
HD800S (yellow) vs HD600 (blue/green) vs HD800 (red) FR
Distorsion: (white for total THD, Red for 2nd harmonic,orange for third harmonic, yellow for 4th harmonic)
HD800S
HD800
CSD
HD800S
HD800
All measurements show the most noticeable change between HD800 and HD800 S: The 6 khz peak is significantly reduced and the resonance at the same frequency is reduced as well. Besides that, all of the other differences are at best subtle…a bit more high mids, a bit less low mids and mid bass and a tiny bit more bass and treble extension. One noticeable drawback is that distorsion is less good in bass and especially sub bass area.
Subjective impressions
Let's recall what Axel Grell told us about his new baby:
“Sounds a tiny bit better, smoother treble, a tiny bit more bass and treble extension”.
To make a long story short: Grell wasn't kidding us. That's precisely what HD800S is: Same as the HD800 except the 6khz peak is mostly fixed. IMO the HD800S sounds more neutral and more of a “reference” sound. Yet, I found that the bass is similar, soundstage and imaging are nearly unchanged. Where the only drawback to the imaging is a slight loss of instrument separation. Period.
The Longer Story:
First time I listened to my HD800S, I immediately checked if the sibilance of the HD800 was still there. So, I put a Diana Krall track in my player .15s of listening were enough to allow me to understand that Senn fixed the 6 kHz. Compared to the HD800, the sibilance is mostly gone as sibilants are no longer exaggerated. For most of the people who listen to a lot of closed mic vocals, it will be much less fatiguing.
Well, other than the 6khz “fix”, are there any other differences that I could honestly detect?
The second subjective difference I heard was that mids and high mids seemed a bit more forward.
Hence, there seems to be better presence and body for voices, guitars and some strings. So, I reflected next on what my measurements revealed. It seems to me that the 6 kHz is not the stronger enemy here. The most important thing to notice is the gap between 4 and 6 kHz. The HD800 exhibits a 15 db (!) difference between 4 and 6 kHz. Hence, there is the sensation of hollow, dead mids and overly present treble. The HD800S offers a 8db difference between 4 and 6 khz. So, logically and besides the absolute treble reduction, it seems that we can enjoy more mids and High mids with the HD800S. And this is, IMO, the greater benefit offered by the new HD800 S. I extensively compared both HD800 and HD800S to my HE-60 and if the HD800 is noticeably weaker than the old Baby Orpheus for mids, the HD800S is definitely a stronger competitor. A good aspect of those enhanced mids ( combined with the tamed 6kHz) is the better tonal accuracy and timbres. Instruments are more full-bodied and sound a bit richer, harmonically speaking. It's obvious when listening to the piano for example. In my case ( I listen mostly to instrumental Jazz and EDM and Classical), improvements in mids are really the main benefit of the 800S. Don't expect HD650, HE-6 or Stax mids though. "tiny bit better" as told us Axel Grell.
My "colorwared" HD800 vs my HD800S
In matter of bass, I'm sorry but I don't hear more bass. Neither did my mic, fortunately for me. Maybe my HD800 was already “more bassy” than the average HD800. Who knows? But as a matter of fact my HD800S#493 does not offer more bass than my #17002 HD800. Even more, my critical listening tests make me think that the HD800S bass is tighter, maybe cleaner and less mid bass centric. Extension seems to be actually improved. Overall, the HD800 and HD800S low register are very similar to my ears.
That having been said and as I pointed out just above, for mids, I definitely think that -6 dB @ 6 kHz induces a new possibility to hear all the other registers. In one word, the smaller 6 kHz peak allows the other registers to blossom, bass included.
Soundstage and imaging are IMO pretty much unchanged. The only exception that I would consider is in terms of instrument separation during very complex music ( mostly I heard it on orchestral stuff). For this kind of music I feel (more than I consciously hear, to be honest) that the HD800S isn’t quite as precise in delineating the separation between instruments, compared to the HD800. With the HD800 I feel like I can read along with the score, while I'm listening to music. With the HD800S I don't have that feel anymore. The positive aspect is that orchestral masses are a tiny bit more cohesive.
Overall, in my opinion , differences between HD800 and HD800S are small, yet significant enough to mention.
Conclusion.
I don't see how one wouldn't see the HD800S as a superior headphone compared to the HD800. To my ears, the younger sibling is definitely more neutral and more of a reference headphone. That having been said, will the HD800 S always be the more enjoyable for you, me and everybody else? I don't think so.
Let's consider the following examples:
My final words are dedicated to Axel Grell and all Sennheiser Team. Kudos to you guys. You didn't fool us with the HD800S. In a headphone world where new TOTL champions cost an arm and a leg, you improved your current flagship without resorting to charging us an insane price for it.
Thanks for that!
About Me: I bought my HD800 in 2013 and my HD800S to Jan Meier in december 2015. I listen mostly to Acoustics, jazz , classical and EDMs. Not much vocals , Rock, Metal, Pop. So, please, take the review with the usual Grain of Salt. Maybe my impressions can't be related to yours. Headphones I owned or I reviewed are in my profile.
Package, Look and Feel,
For people who are already familiar with the HD800, there is nothing surprising here: Same kind of box, same single ended cable, but a balanced cable has been added into the package. The connectors are now black.
For the headphone itself, with the exception of the color scheme, nothing changed at all: Same frame, same pads, same grills, same dust covers… Even the name is unchanged on the headband. The only apparently new thing is the S/N. My HD800 is #17002 and my HD800S is the #493.
The main change appears when we remove the dust covers: in the center of the web behind the driver appears the famous Helmholtz resonator:
Compared to my HD800 without the resonator:
What is a Helmholtz resonator? Thanks goes to Pietcux who linked to the answer in the HD800 thread: See this video which explains how this sort of resonator works.
Measurements:
Measurements were taken on a DIY coupler + Mini DSP UMIK-1 microphone + REW. These measurements are only comparable with ones made on the same rig and shouldn't be compared to other measurements coming from other sources. No compensation was applied.
As you can see, the measured FR can be significantly different depending upon the relative position of headphone and mic. Therefore, I have provided the entire group of raw measurements as well as the Average FR.
HD800S average FR with all raw takes
HD800S Average R and L
HD800S (yellow) vs HD600 (blue/green) vs HD800 (red) FR
Distorsion: (white for total THD, Red for 2nd harmonic,orange for third harmonic, yellow for 4th harmonic)
HD800S
HD800
CSD
HD800S
HD800
All measurements show the most noticeable change between HD800 and HD800 S: The 6 khz peak is significantly reduced and the resonance at the same frequency is reduced as well. Besides that, all of the other differences are at best subtle…a bit more high mids, a bit less low mids and mid bass and a tiny bit more bass and treble extension. One noticeable drawback is that distorsion is less good in bass and especially sub bass area.
Subjective impressions
Let's recall what Axel Grell told us about his new baby:
“Sounds a tiny bit better, smoother treble, a tiny bit more bass and treble extension”.
To make a long story short: Grell wasn't kidding us. That's precisely what HD800S is: Same as the HD800 except the 6khz peak is mostly fixed. IMO the HD800S sounds more neutral and more of a “reference” sound. Yet, I found that the bass is similar, soundstage and imaging are nearly unchanged. Where the only drawback to the imaging is a slight loss of instrument separation. Period.
The Longer Story:
First time I listened to my HD800S, I immediately checked if the sibilance of the HD800 was still there. So, I put a Diana Krall track in my player .15s of listening were enough to allow me to understand that Senn fixed the 6 kHz. Compared to the HD800, the sibilance is mostly gone as sibilants are no longer exaggerated. For most of the people who listen to a lot of closed mic vocals, it will be much less fatiguing.
Well, other than the 6khz “fix”, are there any other differences that I could honestly detect?
The second subjective difference I heard was that mids and high mids seemed a bit more forward.
Hence, there seems to be better presence and body for voices, guitars and some strings. So, I reflected next on what my measurements revealed. It seems to me that the 6 kHz is not the stronger enemy here. The most important thing to notice is the gap between 4 and 6 kHz. The HD800 exhibits a 15 db (!) difference between 4 and 6 kHz. Hence, there is the sensation of hollow, dead mids and overly present treble. The HD800S offers a 8db difference between 4 and 6 khz. So, logically and besides the absolute treble reduction, it seems that we can enjoy more mids and High mids with the HD800S. And this is, IMO, the greater benefit offered by the new HD800 S. I extensively compared both HD800 and HD800S to my HE-60 and if the HD800 is noticeably weaker than the old Baby Orpheus for mids, the HD800S is definitely a stronger competitor. A good aspect of those enhanced mids ( combined with the tamed 6kHz) is the better tonal accuracy and timbres. Instruments are more full-bodied and sound a bit richer, harmonically speaking. It's obvious when listening to the piano for example. In my case ( I listen mostly to instrumental Jazz and EDM and Classical), improvements in mids are really the main benefit of the 800S. Don't expect HD650, HE-6 or Stax mids though. "tiny bit better" as told us Axel Grell.
My "colorwared" HD800 vs my HD800S
In matter of bass, I'm sorry but I don't hear more bass. Neither did my mic, fortunately for me. Maybe my HD800 was already “more bassy” than the average HD800. Who knows? But as a matter of fact my HD800S#493 does not offer more bass than my #17002 HD800. Even more, my critical listening tests make me think that the HD800S bass is tighter, maybe cleaner and less mid bass centric. Extension seems to be actually improved. Overall, the HD800 and HD800S low register are very similar to my ears.
That having been said and as I pointed out just above, for mids, I definitely think that -6 dB @ 6 kHz induces a new possibility to hear all the other registers. In one word, the smaller 6 kHz peak allows the other registers to blossom, bass included.
Soundstage and imaging are IMO pretty much unchanged. The only exception that I would consider is in terms of instrument separation during very complex music ( mostly I heard it on orchestral stuff). For this kind of music I feel (more than I consciously hear, to be honest) that the HD800S isn’t quite as precise in delineating the separation between instruments, compared to the HD800. With the HD800 I feel like I can read along with the score, while I'm listening to music. With the HD800S I don't have that feel anymore. The positive aspect is that orchestral masses are a tiny bit more cohesive.
Overall, in my opinion , differences between HD800 and HD800S are small, yet significant enough to mention.
Conclusion.
I don't see how one wouldn't see the HD800S as a superior headphone compared to the HD800. To my ears, the younger sibling is definitely more neutral and more of a reference headphone. That having been said, will the HD800 S always be the more enjoyable for you, me and everybody else? I don't think so.
Let's consider the following examples:
- For someone who already hates the HD800, it is doubtful that the HD800S will drastically change their opinion. The HD800S is still a HD800 in that it is bright-ish, on the cold side and somewhat analytical… it still offers a kind of "austere" or cerebral listening experience.
- For the original HD800's diehard fans, I can imagine some disappointment. They'll probably miss the special excitement provided by the HD800 treble and instrument separation. Switching to the more “normal” HD800S would probably be like asking a cocaine addict to live only with clear water. I really think that people who already enjoy their HD800 with classical music only have no urge to buy a HD800S except if they are after more tonal accuracy and better timbres. I personally prefer the 800S but YMMV.
- For people who already liked the HD800 but still struggled with its treble and cold tone/weak mids, I highly encourage them to give the HD800S a listen. The new sibling could be a winner for them.
- For HD800 owners who don't want to lose money due to a low resale price but want to benefit from HD800S qualities, EQ and/or mods are probably the way to go. But, if you asked me what my advice is between a new HD800 and a new HD800 S, I'd honestly say that you should take the 800S.
My final words are dedicated to Axel Grell and all Sennheiser Team. Kudos to you guys. You didn't fool us with the HD800S. In a headphone world where new TOTL champions cost an arm and a leg, you improved your current flagship without resorting to charging us an insane price for it.
Thanks for that!
Lovely! Thank you for taking time composing this neat & organized review. Can't wait to try the S model at Canjam Socal to see if I should get them.
Arniesb
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There you have it folks. I don't epect any better review of HD800S.
up late
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exceptional review sorrodje. thanks for posting.
Mike F
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Thanks for the very helpful review!
How long will it be, I wonder, until someone comes up with and exact replica of that resonator?
How long will it be, I wonder, until someone comes up with and exact replica of that resonator?
Dadracer
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What a well balanced and comprehensive review Sorrodje, many thanks. I am finally going to get the chance to compare the new HD800S next week with my own HD800s so I will be able to take part in this discussion at last!!!!
shabta
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Great review @Sorrodje but I think you could use a better editor
Even though we approached our review in different ways, the conclusions are remarkably similar. There aren't any important differences, just a slightly different bass comparison between classic and S. And that could be explained by the normal variations between pairs of headphones. I really appreciate all you measurements, they are really informative.
Even though we approached our review in different ways, the conclusions are remarkably similar. There aren't any important differences, just a slightly different bass comparison between classic and S. And that could be explained by the normal variations between pairs of headphones. I really appreciate all you measurements, they are really informative.
dharma
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Hopefully Sorrodj'es tested HD800 earpads are newer than 2 years and is not like mine (my No:05XXX earpads textile 'glossy' outer layer is almost weared off in many places)...
Last time to change...
Last time to change...
When I read impressions of hd800s I seem to be hearing what the endorphin cable was able to do for my hd800 but with even more from the cable. I would recommend the stefan endorphin cable for the original hd800 but it is an expensive cable.
Sorrodje
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My HD800 pads are one year old. I bought them new last year.
@all : thanks for all positive comments and Reputation points. I appreciate it
@shabta: the editor was perfect
shabta
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Comparison of the S and the new Stax L700 (in german, so if you don't speak german or like me have a german in the house, use google translate)
http://www.open-end-music.de/vb3/showthread.php?t=10061
http://www.open-end-music.de/vb3/showthread.php?t=10061
dharma
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Good reading... and as always, it depends from listener individual preferences too...
and STAX L700 price is 'really comparable' now...
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