[sphinxvc]

Quote:

Well my budget for an amp is ~$400 at most. I'm looking for an amp in that price range that complements the HD650 and is much much better than the NFB-12 amp. I mean I paid $250 for the NFB12, so I'd expect paying $200-$400 for a dedicated amp should be a huge upgrade. Even better would be a DAC/Amp combo in which case I could sell the NFB-12.
 
I suppose the NFB-10se was a pretty good option I was told about (over $400, but justifiable since it has a DAC and I could sell my NFB12), but I sometimes get the impression people recommend DAC/Amps just for the DAC and assume you have some esoteric $10,000,000 vintage tube amplifier with magic tube pixie dust and power line conditioners. Is the NFB-10se amp truly a great SS amp for the HD650 (I would not be using it balanced most likely)? And if not, what else are my options in the ~$400 range for amps or $500-$600 for DAC/Amps?

 
Generally SS amps tend to sound quite close, so it might be a good idea to start by tempering your expectations.  Now $400 is an odd price range, my best recommendation would be to find an M3 or a used Burson.  I'm not sure how much it is to have an M3 commissioned if you're not into used products.
 
Have you ever seen Milosz' thread A/Bing amps?  Go find that, helps temper expectations. 
 
The Burson does have a weird reputation (apparently it's "musical", whatever that means.  An amp can have good dynamics but musical?  Does that mean it's funky?  I'm not into investing hundreds of dollars for a funky sound [but YMMV].).
 
I can't really comment on the HD650s with the NFB-10SE as I've never heard both together, but have only heard them separately.  My impression of the NFB-10SE is that it's a dry sounding thing.  Very androgynous.  From what olor1n has posted of the two together I gather that the 10SE manages to take away the one thing the HD650s really have going for them: the ability to engage & move the listener.  But it is apparently quite resolving; which works out well if most of your music is from Linn, Chesky, HDtracks, 24/96, 24/192, 32/384, etc. etc. etc.
 
In the higher end: I know the Beta22 sounds GREAT.  I've tried the V200 and I would take a 2CH. Beta22 over that.  Haven't heard the HD650 and Beta22 together but hoping to in January.
 

 

[Tetsuma]

Quote:

Tetsuma, have you tried the HD600 before?
What kind of sound do you prefer?

No, but I really want to along with Beyer880s. But its hard to turn over headphone after headphone. 
 
I just don't like congestion, so i'm more neutral oriented I guess. I like the sound of my K701s, though the sub bass needs to be EQ'd permanently in foobar. Going from the K701s to HD650 was annoying. I used the HD650s exclusively for about a fortnight whenever I was home so I could get my head accustomed to the sound. I couldn't like it though. It was as previously described. I'm also not saying the K701 is perfect, but i'd recommend it over the HD650s based on price and performance. Expectation bias, I suppose. I was expecting too much of the HD650s given their reputation and price.
 
 

This measurement may have been made with an older version, that may explain the differences with Tyll's graphs. Just an hypothesis.

Possibly, and we'll soon find out it seems!
 
 

I always felt the same, at least as far as FR goes. I feel the HD650 may be a little more "liquid" sounding, and quite fuller / substantial, but not by a huge margin. Do we know why speakers / headphones with a similar FR may sound quite different ? I've always wondered why, for example, as a generalisation, full-range speakers can give a bigger sound than smaller bookshelves, while still having a similar FR. What changes in the sound wave ?
 

The full range speakers have multiple drivers of different sizes that deal with certain frequencies better. While a bookshelf speaker has just a tweeter and woofer to deal with the entire spectrum (or at least until ~50hz), full range have multiple drivers of different densities/designs pushing a lot of air. Like a sub woofer, it has a heavier and larger diaphram because it is able to push and control air around the lower frequencies better than a woofer.
 
This is a rather laymen interpretation, maybe someone else here can be more helpful.
 
 

The Burson does have a weird reputation (apparently it's "musical", whatever that means.  An amp can have good dynamics but musical?  Does that mean it's funky?  I'm not into investing hundreds of dollars for a funky sound [but YMMV].).

It just means at any given moment your amp may decide to burst into a spontaneous pan flute solo.

 

[Bigdog33]

Has anyone heard the HD650 with the Schiit Asgard?  I just ordered both of them, and I was wondering if I should have maybe gone with the valhalla or something else?  The reason I got the Asgard was becasue I read that it was good for both high and low impedance headphones, and I also have the ultrasone pro 900's.  Do you guys think that will be a good first amp?

 

[rezel]

Quote:

Has anyone heard the HD650 with the Schiit Asgard?  I just ordered both of them, and I was wondering if I should have maybe gone with the valhalla or something else?  The reason I got the Asgard was becasue I read that it was good for both high and low impedance headphones, and I also have the ultrasone pro 900's.  Do you guys think that will be a good first amp?

Sounds just like me. Pro 900 owner looking to get a HRT MSII DAC + Schiit Asgard + HD650.
 
I heard the Schiit Asgard has bad synergy with the Pro 900 though.

 

[olor1n]

@ ac500 - an amp (especially solid state and in the price range you're looking at) is not going to provide the treble boost you crave. The NFB-12 should be providing adequate drive to your HD650. I suspect you'll find it nothing more than a side-grade to focus on a standalone solid state at that price point.
 
If I were to aim for a more pronounced high end, I'd look at the entire chain. On a budget the cheapest sabre dac would be short-listed (or a Bifrost), a separate amp known for neutrality like a HeadAmp, and then silver cabling. That would blow your budget out and you still may not achieve the increased treble presence you're after.
 
Have you heard an HD600? Why not explore that avenue?

 

[ac500]

I'd like to hear an HD600 but I don't want to buy one just to return it if I don't like it. Also I don't like the idea of losing bass quality or quantity vs the HD650. My EQed HD650 has both great bass and treble, and I like that. 
 
A DAC/amp upgrade for me actually wouldn't be to modify the sound signature. I would want my DAC/amp to be as neutral as possible anyway. Any "fixing" of the sound signature will be done through EQ.
 
Rather, the only reason I consider upgrading or sidegrading is due to the multiple reports of the NFB12 sounding not so ideal synergy-wise with the HD650, despite its specs being more than enough technically to power it. Honestly I absolutely love the sound of my HD650 with proper EQ so it's more or less flat sounding, on my NFB12, but I guess it's just the reports of people saying how well it scales up that make me want to see what else is out there.

 

[sphinxvc]

Quote:

@ ac500 - an amp (especially solid state and in the price range you're looking at) is not going to provide the treble boost you crave. The NFB-12 should be providing adequate drive to your HD650. I suspect you'll find it nothing more than a side-grade to focus on a standalone solid state at that price point.
 
If I were to aim for a more pronounced high end, I'd look at the entire chain. On a budget the cheapest sabre dac would be short-listed (or a Bifrost), a separate amp known for neutrality like a HeadAmp, and then silver cabling. That would blow your budget out and you still may not achieve the increased treble presence you're after.
 
Have you heard an HD600? Why not explore that avenue?

Good advice.
 
The HD600 however is a slight downgrade in things other than tonal balance.
 

 

[ac500]

Yeah I don't want to downgrade, and for tonal balance I have an equalizer I'm happy with.
 
Many people have just said the NFB12 isn't great for HD650s despite what the specs imply - although they say it sounds okay. I don't want to color my DAC/amp, I'm just curious what people mean by saying the NFB12 not good for HD650s, and if its true then what else should I "up"-grade to at least synergy-wise in the SS realm. I know the NFB12 specs are good, but it's the complaints of real-world performance concerns with the HD650 I'm curious about.
 
I just want a really good solid state DAC and Amp for the HD650 under about $600 ish total (assuming $400 extra budget and $200 if I was to sell my NFB12). 

 

[MayaTlab]

Quote:

Yeah I don't want to downgrade, and for tonal balance I have an equalizer I'm happy with.
 
Many people have just said the NFB12 isn't great for HD650s despite what the specs imply - although they're okay. I don't want to color my DAC/amp, I'm just curious what people mean by this (NFB12 not good for HD650s) and if its true then what else should I get in the SS realm.
 
I just want a really good solid state DAC and Amp for the HD650 under about $600 ish total (assuming $400 extra budget and $200 if I was to sell my NFB12). 

Maybe some lower-tier Lake People amps ? They're quite well appreciated in Europe : http://www.lake-people.de/index.php?id=2&lang=eng&typ=3 
The G95 seems within budget. Unfortunately, it's XLR only. I believe only the G100 has RCA.
Just a suggestion though. I've read good reports on that pairing on French and German forums, but I don't have personal experience.
 

 

[sphinxvc]

Quote:

...but I guess it's just the reports of people saying how well it scales up that make me want to see what else is out there.

I usually get flak for saying this, but I wouldn't say the HD650s scale up much.  

 

[caracara08]

Quote:

I usually get flak for saying this, but I wouldn't say the HD650s scale up much.  

i dont think this is true, i think the sound signature is justnot to your liking. 

 

[sphinxvc]

 
No, it is to my liking, and I’m actually in the middle of shopping for my second pair right now (what’s with the used prices by the way?  People own it for 3 years and don’t expect it to depreciate at all).  It’s a minority point of view, but I’m glad to know at least two others who feel the same, Nikongod being one of them.  I think the notion is left over from an era when the HD650 was a flagship and people paired it with their $2K Zana Deuxs.  Today those same people have the option of $1K flagships that are “more” than the HD650s in every way.  I have tried this HP with low-end ($300), to mid-end to hi-end setups ($3K+) and they retain most of what they're about.  So either the Audio-GD FUN I started out with was a giant killer (which it's not) or the HD650s don’t scale as much as they’re made out to.

 

[caracara08]

Quote:

 
No, it is to my liking, and I’m actually in the middle of shopping for my second pair right now (what’s with the used prices by the way?  People own it for 3 years and don’t expect it to depreciate at all).  It’s a minority point of view, but I’m glad to know at least two others who feel the same, Nikongod being one of them.  I think the notion is left over from an era when the HD650 was a flagship and people paired it with their $2K Zana Deuxs.  Today those same people have the option of $1K flagships that are “more” than the HD650s in every way.  I have tried this HP with low-end ($300), to mid-end to hi-end setups ($3K+) and they retain most of what they're about.  So either the Audio-GD FUN I started out with was a giant killer (which it's not) or the HD650s don’t scale as much as they’re made out to.

thats fair.  ive had them with a little dot mk2 up to a ZDSE and i thought they scaled well but i can see where youre coming from. i loved them with the mk2 also.  but in the end, the T1 gets a lot more head time.

 

[ac500]

I'll most likely just wait and stick with my NFB12. If some day I feel a need to upgrade, I'll get something like an NFB-10se or FUN. Since I've seen many people saying these sound just about as good as anything, I think upgrading beyond that point to $2000 dac/amps seems a silly thing to do when I could instead buy a better headphone.

 

[B-Dawk20]

@ac500 do you use a software or hardware eq?