[realmassy]

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I feel much of the "veil" talk is caused by the over-brightness of most other phones. Any headphone listener hearing acoustic (unamplified) instruments for the first time will be initially surprised at how "dull" they sound. "Where's the extreme treble?--where's the sparkle?" It isn't there in real life, especially from a reasonable distance. The fact is, most headphones are much brighter than real life and speakers. I've owned all the usual suspects--AT AD700/900, Denon D2000, Beyer DT880, Grado SR80 etc--and all have been much brighter than what I hear in the concert hall and any speakers I've ever owned. The 650, however, is not, and so many find it "veiled".

I hate to quote you again man! Very true, headphones usually sound better than real life!

 

[Roger Strummer]

Quote:

I feel much of the "veil" talk is caused by the over-brightness of most other phones. Any headphone listener hearing acoustic (unamplified) instruments for the first time will be initially surprised at how "dull" they sound. "Where's the extreme treble?--where's the sparkle?" It isn't there in real life, especially from a reasonable distance. The fact is, most headphones are much brighter than real life and speakers. I've owned all the usual suspects--AT AD700/900, Denon D2000, Beyer DT880, Grado SR80 etc--and all have been much brighter than what I hear in the concert hall and any speakers I've ever owned. The 650, however, is not, and so many find it "veiled".

Good comment, but I think you are simplifying things a little too much. I say this because when reading the comment of hearing acoustic instruments, the question that came to my head is at what distance?. For example in a classical music live event, there are significant differences depending on the distance that you are of the stage, and so there is no headphone that captures perfectly the experience at all distances. For example I've always sit at the front rows since I was a child, and the 650 are darker than that experience and it was the opposite, I felt the 650 are dull at capturing life in that sense, and the HD800 are as close to perfect as I've listened, now if you go back in the audience then what you say is true.  So as pretty much with anything in life, its very hard to say that there are black and whites when in fact there are lots of shades of gray.

 

[jasonb]

the HD650's are definitely a few rows back, as opposed to being right on stage, but they aren't at the back of the room either.

 

[pp312]

 
Quote:

Quote:

I feel much of the "veil" talk is caused by the over-brightness of most other phones. Any headphone listener hearing acoustic (unamplified) instruments for the first time will be initially surprised at how "dull" they sound. "Where's the extreme treble?--where's the sparkle?" It isn't there in real life, especially from a reasonable distance. The fact is, most headphones are much brighter than real life and speakers. I've owned all the usual suspects--AT AD700/900, Denon D2000, Beyer DT880, Grado SR80 etc--and all have been much brighter than what I hear in the concert hall and any speakers I've ever owned. The 650, however, is not, and so many find it "veiled".

Good comment, but I think you are simplifying things a little too much. I say this because when reading the comment of hearing acoustic instruments, the question that came to my head is at what distance?. For example in a classical music live event, there are significant differences depending on the distance that you are of the stage, and so there is no headphone that captures perfectly the experience at all distances. For example I've always sit at the front rows since I was a child, and the 650 are darker than that experience and it was the opposite, I felt the 650 are dull at capturing life in that sense, and the HD800 are as close to perfect as I've listened, now if you go back in the audience then what you say is true.  So as pretty much with anything in life, its very hard to say that there are black and whites when in fact there are lots of shades of gray.

Good point, but I think if you took a concensus of classical music concert goers as to where they would prefer to sit, or where they felt one ought to sit to hear the orchestra as it should be heard, I suggest the majority would nominate a midway or slighter closr than midway point in the hall. I can't imagine too many wanting to sit in the first few rows unless they preferred visual stimuli, nor in the cheap seats at the back. Personally I always site 12 rows back as my reference point, but it may be more like 20--enough for the orchestra to bloom without sounding cavernously far away. It should be remembered that strings can sound quite harsh up close, which perhaps is why they usuallly sound harsher to me on CD than in real life.    
In any case I think this midway position was what the designers of the 650 were aiming for.
 
That aside, I do feel most phones are too bright per se, not just in terms of not mimicking a concert hall. If you just want to blast something and have fun following a musical line or dissecting the whole piece, fine, but to sit for an hour or so listening to a symphony or whatever...I couldn't do that on the phones cited, not even the Denon, which perhaps is the mildest. Some I found ridiculous, like the Grado SR80 and Beyer DT880, whose measured FR is exactly what you hear; and when I see people post how good and satisfying they are I get a bit worried about the latitude of taste in the world. But...to each his own, as they say. Meantime to my ears the 650 is ideally balanced (at least, with aftermarket cable). I won't be tempted away to the Bright Side.

  

 

[funkymonkcp]

 Well I pulled the trigger on the HD650's and the Nuforce Icon HDP last night. Cost $980 total. Should arrive Tuesday. I hope they are as good as everybody says they are. I had the HD280's before. Hated them. I know these aren't in the same league as those so I hope they don't sound anywhere near the 280's. I have the UE-11's and I know it'll take some getting used to. I'm so used to the forward, in your head sound of the UE-11's but I'm sure these will be great in their own way. I'll post my impressions after I get everything.
 

 

[steveotron]

Quote:

 Well I pulled the trigger on the HD650's and the Nuforce Icon HDP last night. Cost $980 total. Should arrive Tuesday. I hope they are as good as everybody says they are. I had the HD280's before. Hated them. I know these aren't in the same league as those so I hope they don't sound anywhere near the 280's. I have the UE-11's and I know it'll take some getting used to. I'm so used to the forward, in your head sound of the UE-11's but I'm sure these will be great in their own way. I'll post my impressions after I get everything.
 

 
Whoa, how'd it come to $980? HDP can be found for $430 from Crutchfield (coupon code: 3A825), and the 650 is like $350 from eBay/Sonic Sense/J&R.
 

 

[jasonb]

well the mid-range can sound a tad forward. the whole sound isn't laid back, just the top end.
 
Quote:

A  Well I pulled the trigger on the HD650's and the Nuforce Icon HDP last night. Cost $980 total. Should arrive Tuesday. I hope they are as good as everybody says they are. I had the HD280's before. Hated them. I know these aren't in the same league as those so I hope they don't sound anywhere near the 280's. I have the UE-11's and I know it'll take some getting used to. I'm so used to the forward, in your head sound of the UE-11's but I'm sure these will be great in their own way. I'll post my impressions after I get everything.
 

 

[funkymonkcp]

Quote:

Quote:

 Well I pulled the trigger on the HD650's and the Nuforce Icon HDP last night. Cost $980 total. Should arrive Tuesday. I hope they are as good as everybody says they are. I had the HD280's before. Hated them. I know these aren't in the same league as those so I hope they don't sound anywhere near the 280's. I have the UE-11's and I know it'll take some getting used to. I'm so used to the forward, in your head sound of the UE-11's but I'm sure these will be great in their own way. I'll post my impressions after I get everything.
 

 
Whoa, how'd it come to $980? HDP can be found for $430 from Crutchfield (coupon code: 3A825), and the 650 is like $350 from eBay/Sonic Sense/J&R.
 

I just went to my normal source, Amazon. They have good return policies and great customer service. Also, I get overnight shipping on prime products for $4 extra. I guess I could have shopped around more, however, in the end I trust Amazon most to take care of issues that may arise.

 

[harpua]

Just remember that the HDP needs some burn in time (as much as 300 hrs) to sound its best, even more so than the HD650s, which, to me, sounded pretty great right out of the box.  So don't judge the HDP too quickly.  Although I thought mine sounded good at first, it got A LOT better after 300 hrs or so.
 
But that said, congrats . . . I think those two make a great combination (although I probably could have been just as happy with the HD as I have only used the USB input so far).
 
Quote:

 Well I pulled the trigger on the HD650's and the Nuforce Icon HDP last night. Cost $980 total. Should arrive Tuesday. I hope they are as good as everybody says they are. I had the HD280's before. Hated them. I know these aren't in the same league as those so I hope they don't sound anywhere near the 280's. I have the UE-11's and I know it'll take some getting used to. I'm so used to the forward, in your head sound of the UE-11's but I'm sure these will be great in their own way. I'll post my impressions after I get everything.
 

 

[sphinxvc]

Quote:

 Well I pulled the trigger on the HD650's and the Nuforce Icon HDP last night. Cost $980 total. Should arrive Tuesday. I hope they are as good as everybody says they are. I had the HD280's before. Hated them. I know these aren't in the same league as those so I hope they don't sound anywhere near the 280's. I have the UE-11's and I know it'll take some getting used to. I'm so used to the forward, in your head sound of the UE-11's but I'm sure these will be great in their own way. I'll post my impressions after I get everything.
 

 
Holy crap.
 
Hope you like 'em.
 

 

[librarian]

I like them. I much prefer them to HD800. Though HD800 are technically superior to HD650, I just love to listen to music with HD650. Sold the HD800.
 
I pair my HD650 with Woo Audio WA2, listening to vinyl. I hope you will like the HD650 as much as I do.
 
If you ever consider recabling, I recommand apuresound V3.

 

[jasonb]

i spent even more on my HD650 setup. i paid 328 plus shipping for the cans, and i paid 800 plus shipping on my amp/dac. i spent about 1150-1170 or so on my setup including 2-day shipping. its an expensive hobby.
 
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Holy crap.
 
Hope you like 'em.
 

 

[Heidegger]

Anybody ever play them too loud and blow these cans?

 

[jasonb]

not that i have seen or read about yet.
 
i usually listen in the high 70's to mid 80's, but sometimes for short periods of time will crank it up into the high 80's to low 90's and i have yet to hear any distortion or any signs of stress. they are not the loudest cans out there, but they will definitely handle listening at any safe level.     
 
Quote:

Anybody ever play them too loud and blow these cans?

 

[Blisse]

I'm always confused by the volumes people listen at. The knob on my uDac-2 is less than 9 o'clock, which is about 25% of the rotation. How do you listen so loudly?
 
Meanwhile I'm looking for the Icon HD. That extra $100 for the HDP really killed it, but if the HD retails at around $250, I might consider it. Not to mention low stock everywhere.