[DDDamian]

   
@DDDamian - have you listened to Bon Iver's self titled album at all? I know Justin Vernon can be annoying, but listening to it on the 650's vs the LCD's, the detail retrieval is crazy. The intricate guitar, trumpets that seem to float around like fireflies, and just layers upon layers. Curious if you'd tried it out... I think it's a perfect example of my preference for what the 650's do crazy well. I'd also recommend it to everyone else... the caveat being his vocals. Perth into Minnesota, then Holocene is marvelous. Calgary also has some beautiful guitar/drums. I think this album was made for listening on the 650's.

 
Hi mikoss - it's been a while since I heard that. Had to laugh at a description of it I heard a while back: "lonely nerds in a cabin". Will give it a spin today and compare! It's a rainy day off here, and the beer fridge is full. What's a guy to do? (No, I don't live in a cabin!!) 

 

[3083joe]

Now he needs new headphone stand.

Yes maybe a quad stand.

 

[rogerthatmand]

https://www.massdrop.com/buy/just-mobile-stand?utm_source=Sailthru&utm_medium=email&utm_term=Community%20-%20Audiophile%20-%20MAU%20%28Active%29&utm_campaign=Audiophile%20A%20Product%20Announcement%202015-06-15&mode=guest_open&referer=9HZ37Y

 

[DavidA]

  https://www.massdrop.com/buy/just-mobile-stand?utm_source=Sailthru&utm_medium=email&utm_term=Community%20-%20Audiophile%20-%20MAU%20%28Active%29&utm_campaign=Audiophile%20A%20Product%20Announcement%202015-06-15&mode=guest_open&referer=9HZ37Y

The stand is too short for many headphones, it needs to be about 1.5 inches higher IMO.

 

[DavidA]

TBH this discussion is completely pointless to pursue further, and it honestly doesn't really matter as long as people are enjoying their headphones. Stalemate has reached the trenches.

How about change of topic?

I just bought my father a pair for his birthday and plan on a three-part gift that will consist eventually of a Valhalla 2 ( for Spring Festival) and a new cable by Norne Audio (for his next birthday). I am hoping it can complement with his current system for a fraction of the price (he already has a DAC). Such is my fondness for the HD 650s!

Pic is of his current "rig" with the new HD 650s crowning the system

Can I adopt you as my daughter?  My son already has my HD-560 and X1, he did buy his own amp so maybe all is not lost yet.

 

[DavidA]

Oh.... That's posh. An he500. I'm curious about the hifiman headphones, I must admit. As a contrast to the Senns, I use the Fostex th900 but one of those Hifiman ear warmers might be quite nice.

Mind you, I'm curious about most headphones tbh. The Senn hd800 is another that I have my eye on.

I always return to the hd650 comfort zone though.

You really should try a Hifiman or the HD-800/700 headphones, they are "different" from the HD-650.  Having a HE-400/400i/560 and the HD-800/700/650 they all have their different sound signature and I would not say one is better than the other.  I like each for different genre of music and for their different presentations, make listening to the same song interesting IMO.  Other thing I've noticed is that having the right amp to pair with any of these headphones greatly enhances the listening experience.
 
As much as I love the HD-650 its not the best for all of the various genres of music that I like to listen to.

 

[DDDamian]

Oh.... That's posh. An he500. I'm curious about the hifiman headphones, I must admit. As a contrast to the Senns, I use the Fostex th900 but one of those Hifiman ear warmers might be quite nice.

Mind you, I'm curious about most headphones tbh. The Senn hd800 is another that I have my eye on.

I always return to the hd650 comfort zone though.

If you go that route I'd avoid the HE-400 unless you get a really good deal. There's some nice characteristics to it, but too many flaws for my tastes. The 400i seems to fix a lot of them and is reasonably priced. The HE-500 used might be a good investment too - you'll get the better mids than the 400 but still get all the benefits of the planar design.
 
With the exception of the HE-400 comment that's all anecdotal though. Seemed to be the overriding theme while I was researching the planar upgrade that eventually led me to Audeze.

 

[iancraig10]

You really should try a Hifiman or the HD-800/700 headphones, they are "different" from the HD-650.  Having a HE-400/400i/560 and the HD-800/700/650 they all have their different sound signature and I would not say one is better than the other.  I like each for different genre of music and for their different presentations, make listening to the same song interesting IMO.  Other thing I've noticed is that having the right amp to pair with any of these headphones greatly enhances the listening experience.

As much as I love the HD-650 its not the best for all of the various genres of music that I like to listen to.

I may well do actually. i was considering the hd800 until I saw that the pads don't come off easily. Didn't like that too much. They would be a lot brighter than the hd650.

The Hifiman headphones look nice, but each one has (like so many headphones) flaws in design or sound. The recent beta kind of put me off as well if I'm honest. I felt a little uncomfortable with what was going on so I turned the opportunity down when Fang emailed me.

Audeze is another option too. Hopefully the cracking cups is an issue of the past as well?

That's the thing about headphones now. So much choice. And they're all so good as well. Not like the 70's when I started with a jvc headphone and moved over to a Senn hd414 which I thought was marvellous at the time!!

 

[DDDamian]

I think the LCD cup cracking was largely limited to the early rosewood versions which had the plug connectors machined out of the wood itself. They now have metal angled connector housings and the bamboo option. The warranty is shorter on the rosewood cups though, which may indicate a lack of confidence in them (and they command a higher price for the wood itself).
 
I'm curious about your obviously negative experience with a HifiMan beta test - what wasn't kosher about how that was looking?

 

[kman1211]

I may well do actually. i was considering the hd800 until I saw that the pads don't come off easily. Didn't like that too much. They would be a lot brighter than the hd650.

The Hifiman headphones look nice, but each one has (like so many headphones) flaws in design or sound. The recent beta kind of put me off as well if I'm honest. I felt a little uncomfortable with what was going on so I turned the opportunity down when Fang emailed me.

Audeze is another option too. Hopefully the cracking cups is an issue of the past as well?

That's the thing about headphones now. So much choice. And they're all so good as well. Not like the 70's when I started with a jvc headphone and moved over to a Senn hd414 which I thought was marvellous at the time!!

I know what you mean about flaws in the design or sound. To be honest I only have two headphones that don't start bothering me with long term listening. It's the K712 and the HD 650. I find my HD 600 and DT 150 to have flaws in their sound that start to irritate me with longer term listening. The DT 150 starts sounding a bit rough despite being better than my other headphones in various ways and the HD 600 has a bit of grain in the treble that starts irritating me.
 
I felt similar about the beta myself, it also somewhat put me off if I'm to be honest. 
 
I'm personally eyeing the Audeze LCD-2 or the Audioquest Nighthawk(which will be more of a shot in the dark, but I'm willing to give them a shot, just have to make sure I'm able to return them without hassle if I don't like them). 

 

[kman1211]

I used mine for around 4 years with no pad swap. The signature became bassier, less air and brightness--pleasant in its own kind of way. But it was worth it finally updating the pads. Sennheiser's price for replacements, however, is absurdly exorbitant.

Agree on the pad prices, sadly pads are expensive on many headphones which is definitely off-putting.

 

[DDDamian]

   
Hi mikoss - it's been a while since I heard that. Had to laugh at a description of it I heard a while back: "lonely nerds in a cabin". Will give it a spin today and compare! It's a rainy day off here, and the beer fridge is full. What's a guy to do? (No, I don't live in a cabin!!) 

Hi mikoss - gave it a whirl and here's my thoughts:
 
Version was an EAC-> FLAC rip of catalog CAD3117CD. Played via Foobar to:
- ASIO -> Teac UD-501 -> Gustard H10 -> LCD 2.2
- WASAPI (event) -> Fiio X5 LO -> BHC -> HD-650
 
Not apples to apples as far as the chain (nor would I want it to be as swapping amps would have ruined both). I volume-matched as best as I could by ear. Doing it this way I was able to A/B as much as possible by swapping headphones and swapping the output device in Foobar. I'd estimate about 3-4 seconds between swaps, and I did about 10 samples per phone. Tracks were 1) Perth and 8) Calgary (in your honour lol).
 
The LCD gave a wider soundstage and better imaging. Given the very-closed-in nature of the recording this was kind of marginal. There was a little more visceral and emotional twinge in the vocals and more detail/twang on the guitars. Sadly, the natural sound of these cans disappeared (see below).
 
The 650 had a much more narrow soundstage that had more vertical aspects - it immediately surrounded your head instead of going wider. The grit smoothed out (good and bad) and the whole picture was more cohesive - it felt more even and intimate - less grain and more of a bubble sound around your head.
 
In both cases the recording sucked lol. I'm not sure if that was how the recording was meant to sound, but on both cans the amount of reverb applied trashed any kind of attack/decay and the small cues that give you the ambience and natural separation of mic's in a sound-field, as opposed to the panned separation of separate tracks and a mixing board. I hate to say but this sounded very badly engineered for a more-or-less acoustical set. Even For Emma, With Love sounded better.
 
I guess the take-away on this one is I preferred the 650. It smoothed the recording/mastering issues and kept more in keeping with what should be a close-up, small-room sound. It made it tolerable. On the LCD this disc would have been in the recycle bin / garbage can in seconds.
 
Would love to try this again on a different recording!

 

[upstateguy]

Originally Posted by DDDamian /img/forum/go_quote.gif
 
<snip>
 
Hi mikoss - gave it a whirl and here's my thoughts:
 
Version was an EAC-> FLAC rip of catalog CAD3117CD. Played via Foobar to:
- ASIO -> Teac UD-501 -> Gustard H10 -> LCD 2.2
- WASAPI (event) -> Fiio X5 LO -> BHC -> HD-650
 
<snip>

 
Why WASAPI (event) and not (push) ???  How do you know which one to choose?

 

[DDDamian]

   
Why WASAPI (event) and not (push) ???  How do you know which one to choose?

An area of some expertise lol. I wrote WASAPI code for XBMC/Kodi - still on the team I think lol. They are both bit-perfect (unlike the abominable WASAPI-shared, which is the worst mix of DirectSound's weaknesses and WASAPI's advantages).
 
The only differences are in the overhead. With push mode the software polls WASAPI to see if the buffer needs more data - this means checking again and again. With event mode you have two buffers. You fill both and tell it to go, after providing a callback function address. When the first buffer has drained and the second started, Windows calls you back with an "event" to tell you to re-fill the first. This continues back and forth in a ping-pong manner.
 
Totally irrelevant to SQ (as long as you don't starve buffers in either mode) and irrelevant in player-only applications. It matters in the guts of a program that is doing other time-critical things like audio/video, and is running multiple threads.
 
Don't stress over which you pick Just don't pick DirectSound.

 

[upstateguy]

 

   
Why WASAPI (event) and not (push) ???  How do you know which one to choose?

An area of some expertise lol. I wrote WASAPI code for XBMC/Kodi - still on the team I think lol. They are both bit-perfect (unlike the abominable WASAPI-shared, which is the worst mix of DirectSound's weaknesses and WASAPI's advantages).
 
The only differences are in the overhead. With push mode the software polls WASAPI to see if the buffer needs more data - this means checking again and again. With event mode you have two buffers. You fill both and tell it to go, after providing a callback function address. When the first buffer has drained and the second started, Windows calls you back with an "event" to tell you to re-fill the first. This continues back and forth in a ping-pong manner.
 
Totally irrelevant to SQ (as long as you don't starve buffers in either mode) and irrelevant in player-only applications. It matters in the guts of a program that is doing other time-critical things like audio/video, and is running multiple threads.
 
Don't stress over which you pick Just don't pick DirectSound.

 
Glad to find someone who actually wrote WASAPI code.
 
but, I'm still not fully understanding the subtleties of making a choice between push and event.
 
Why would someone want to use one or the other? 
 
What difference does it make with foobar?
 
What difference would it make gaming?
 
I've been using push for a long time, but I don't remember why any more.