[olegausany]

I never heard Garage 1217 so can't comment but agree that Crack with stock tubes is not very special. Only upgrading tubes will let him shine

 

[JamieMcC]

   
 
then we have assembled stock Crack at >$530 + $100 wise component upgrade + ~$75 my time/labor/cost to upgrade = >$700
 
I have HD 650, no plan to upgrade my cans.  So a couple questions remain:
 
For HD 650's is upgraded Crack at $700+ orders of magnitude "better" than Lyr at $450+?
Is Lyr orders-magnitude-less synergistic w/ hi-impedance cans?

 
You better remember to add $75 per hour charge for each hour you spend researching as well

 
 
Isn't head-fi meant to be an enjoyable *hobby* not something with a hourly rate. Investing a few free hours in project that will give you many years of enjoyment is a no brainer imo.
 
The extra $100 would get you a stepped attenuator, film output capacitors & Teflon bypass capacitors. I expect you would need to spend well over $1000 to get the same spec level in a off the shelf solid state head amp.  At this point with a good source the HD 650's will be the weak link in the chain.
 
Edit I'm guessing picking up used lyr will most probably be a good option and if you don't like it then flick it on quickly, find a good deal and you could even break even. It would also provide you a good base for future reference.

 

[connieflyer]

Diminishing returns when you spend more for the amp than for the headphones.  As for a hobby, only if you are talking about the building it self.  The whole point of listening to the phones is not to see if you can make them better and constantly compare this to that, but to listen and enjoy your time with them.
 
 

   
You better remember to add $75 per hour charge for each hour you spend researching as well

 
 
Isn't head-fi meant to be an enjoyable *hobby* not something with a hourly rate. Investing a few free hours in project that will give you many years of enjoyment is a no brainer imo.
 
The extra $100 would get you a stepped attenuator, film output capacitors & Teflon bypass capacitors. I expect you would need to spend well over $1000 to get the same spec level in a off the shelf solid state head amp.  At this point with a good source the HD 650's will be the weak link in the chain.
 
Edit I'm guessing picking up used lyr will most probably be a good option and if you don't like it then flick it on quickly, find a good deal and you could even break even. It would also provide you a good base for future reference.

 

[Solrighal]

Oh wow! These are very smooth sounding headphones. I wasn't expecting that. Wonderfully comfy too after the Q701's.

This feels like home.

 

[ButtUglyJeff]

Oh wow! These are very smooth sounding headphones. I wasn't expecting that. Wonderfully comfy too after the Q701's.

This feels like home.

 
Female vocals, I can't stress enough how the HD650s are perfect for female vocals...

 

[kramer5150]

Oh wow! These are very smooth sounding headphones. I wasn't expecting that. Wonderfully comfy too after the Q701's.

This feels like home.

yep... smooth and relaxed thats the HD650.  it doesn't work all the time with everything.  But I find it works often enough and its a great compliment to my brighter more aggressive cans.  enjoy!!

 

[Stlrman]

I am wondering how the HD650 will sound straight from an iPhone or iPad ? I do have an Onkyo 955a that has a headphone jack.
Also what would be an under $200 amp that would be good with them? Thanks

 

[JamieMcC]

Diminishing returns when you spend more for the amp than for the headphones.  As for a hobby, only if you are talking about the building it self.  The whole point of listening to the phones is not to see if you can make them better and constantly compare this to that, but to listen and enjoy your time with them.
 

 
I don't think of it that way the couple of hours it took has enabled me to feel like I am getting close to the full potential out of both the HD650's and Beyer T1's by providing a superbly enjoyable, grin inducing listen for what is relatively small change and is potentially end game territory.  I have no urge to continue box swapping which is also very good news for my wallet.

 

[vc1187]

I have heard  both with the HD 650s and I don't think the crack + speedball is significantly better than the lyr. In fact I think they sound pretty close this was with stock tubes in both.  

And I'm one of the weird ones that prefers the crack without speedball, so have your pick!

Never heard the lyr so i can't comment, I just know that having heard many other high end equipment and end game rigs, the 650 + crack pairs very well.

 

[pdrm360]

  Dude, I am not saying the O2/ODAC combo is better than the Modi/Valhalla one - and very likely not. My answer is for the people who have already got their O/O combos. In this case, O/O to M/V is definitely not considered an upgrade. So I would save the money for BH Crack with Speedball or Bifrost/Lyr or other upgrades, which can significantly improve the sound.
 
The O/O cost about $300, and the M/V about $450. Really not a big difference in this weird hifi world. So I think it is pretty fair to say that the 2 combos are in the same league.
 
However, if you have never purchased either of the combos, definitely go for the Modi/Valhalla one. It would probably sound better, and most importantly feel better with a higher price tag.

 
IMO, the Valhalla pairs better with the HD650 than the Lyr. 

 

[pdrm360]

With the HD 650's does stock Crack sound significantly better than the Lyr?

Why I ask: for electronics assembly newb (me), cost outlay for a DIY Crack is probly north of ~$330 + time to build (time worth $50-$150/hr to me depending on how I apply it). A new assembled & warranted stock Crack costs $530 + shipping (kit + BH-referred assembly by hifibuilderguy). Crack + Speed assembled is $735 ! + ship.

For me Lyr is $449 + $16 ship, or $399 + ship for Schitt-warranted b-stock.

I get it there's more to this than a $80+ cost difference - but is stock Crack orders of magnitude "better" with HD 650's than a Lyr?
("better" = all the quantitative measures + subjective blah blah used to evaluate headphone amps).

 
IMO, for the HD650: Crack+Speed > Crack >= Valhalla > Lyr 

 

[pdrm360]

   
 
then we have assembled stock Crack at >$530 + $100 wise component upgrade + ~$75 my time/labor/cost to upgrade = >$700
 
I have HD 650, no plan to upgrade my cans.  So a couple questions remain:
 
For HD 650's is upgraded Crack at $700+ orders of magnitude "better" than Lyr at $450+?
Is Lyr orders-magnitude-less synergistic w/ hi-impedance cans?

 
The Crack is better but not day/night better than the Lyr, IMO. In overall I think the Lyr is one of the best all-rounder amps. 

 

[Solrighal]

Female vocals, I can't stress enough how the HD650s are perfect for female vocals...

Something like this...?


http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=hpQ_aehfPrY

yep... smooth and relaxed thats the HD650.  it doesn't work all the time with everything.  But I find it works often enough and its a great compliment to my brighter more aggressive cans.  enjoy!!

They're unbelievably smooth. I'm coming from Q701's and it's so welcoming. Like getting out the shower and jumping into a nice fluffy warm bed. And done with absolute precision so far. I listened to a Röyksopp album there, Junior. There's a song on Junior called "The Alcoholic". In that song, with the HD650's, the strongest instrument or sound is a synthesizer that in everything else I've heard it on is insignificant. On these it's the lead. How can that be?

How long do these need to burn-in? I'm not hearing any veil. Actually, I use JRiver on Mac and I accidentally started out with the HD650's using an EQ I use for the Q701's, to tone down the 2k hump. Once I realised my error they really started to sing.

I need a longer cable though. Not necessarily better mind, longer would be good enough. One good thing about AKG is that they supply two cables with the Q's, one of 10ft & another of 20ft. That's a handy length, gets me to my couch where I can lie down.

The comfort is smooth too. The whole thing feels kinda like an Audi.

 

[rEEcEj]

Do you guys adjust the EQ while listening on your HD650s? While they're lovely to listen to, I find the hyped low-mid range severely takes the focus off more engaging sounds of higher frequencies unless i'm listening at a lower level, or could this simply be due to me not having a proper headphone amplifier? Are there amps out there which hype certain frequencies?
 
To be honest I don't want to adjust EQ at all for this amount of money, i'd like them to have a distinct, enjoyable sound which I can enjoy music/reference music on.

 

[Unfie]

  Do you guys adjust the EQ while listening on your HD650s? While they're lovely to listen to, I find the hyped low-mid range severely takes the focus off more engaging sounds of higher frequencies unless i'm listening at a lower level, or could this simply be due to me not having a proper headphone amplifier? Are there amps out there which hype certain frequencies?
 
To be honest I don't want to adjust EQ at all for this amount of money, i'd like them to have a distinct, enjoyable sound which I can enjoy music/reference music on.

 
I personally find the brightness of Valhalla enough for me to not want more treble. In fact, during the burn-in period, some of the highs were piercing my ears. I think I just wasn't used to the level of detail that my current setup provides over my previous one.