[SP Wild]

Bingo!
 
Never ceases to amaze me that people compare live music to headphone...then state they always listen softly on headphones to protect their hearing.  Very hypocritical and incorrect way to "reference" things.
 
For the record my hearing is fine.  I like to blast my headphones to reference volumes and enjoy them like that for no more than 20 minutes a week at maximum.

 

[ac500]

I think unamplified music (classical for example) is the only way to really judge a headphone's natural-ness, otherwise you're just judging it's ability to imitate another speaker/amplifier/loudness sound.

 

[SP Wild]

Agreed.  But many classical performance also has speakers and microphones.  A drumkit is not normally amplified and can always be referenced on most any performance.  It also covers all of the musical spectrum from bass to treble.

 

[ac500]

Whoa, just for fun I played a uniform amplitude frequency sweep (downloaded a high quality audio file this time, rather than web-based apps), and I can actually hear the ups and downs of the treble amplitude you see in the frequency graphs.
 
I also compared to my SRH940 (treble headphones). The SRH940's bass is hugely inferior in the deep lows, in the sense that it sounds reverb-ey and unnatural (a weird plastickey 'in your head' feeling) versus the HD650 which is beautifully transparent (if that term can be applied to bass). The SRH940 also have much more peaky treble -- I can hear it go loud/quiet/loud more severely than the HD650 as the sweep proceeds. Also the SRH940 does have somewhat more than neutral treble, at least as far as my ears interpret the amplitudes perceived.
 
Using a constant amplitude frequency sweep, the HD650 doesn't really sound that laid back until you exceed 10 or 15khz. Treble is definitely there, and if it's shy of neutral, it only sounds slightly so. Now above 10khz is where I have issues with the HD650 -- it basically sounds like it rolls off almost entirely (like a huge volume drop - I haven't trained my ear to decibel units so I don't know how to say how much). At the same time, I like the HD650 for this because it makes it much more gentle for bad recordings.
 
The SRH940 does NOT roll off treble above 10khz except for what sounds like a severe peak and valley somewhere around there. I think this may be why I like the SRH940 for some music like fast complex metal etc. The HD650 rolling off treble just removes a lot of detail from electric guitars, violins, etc. -- instruments which at least to my untrained ear seem to have a lot of IMPORTANT treble. I still find the SRH940 a bit unnatural/colored sounding though, and I think it's because of the weird lower end sound.
 
Edit: Also, I'd ask a question to those who actually know what they're talking about regarding frequency response. I noticed that if anything, the HD650 bass (not midbass) is the most recessed part of the entire spectrum. I know that it isn't on paper and many say the HD650 has too much bass... but why is it that so-called "neutral" lower bass would sound less energetic / quieter than everything else? I know it's hard to produce loudly with headphones, and I'm no basshead, but I'm wondering why people would say a headphone has too much bass when the 20-30 khz range seems too quiet if anything. Midbass though is a bit louder than neutral to my ears.

 

[Satellite_6]

Relative to the mids they have a bit too much bass to my ears. Also a lot of upper mid presence making them just slightly V-shaped. 
 
To get good deep bass out of them I turn the bass down mainly in the mid-bass region and also turn down the upper mids, and even highs. 
 
(I'm crazy though, so don't listen to me)

 

[SP Wild]

I think ac500 came pretty close....though I never listened to sine sweep before.  I always knew that there was more sub bass in real music than the HD650 produced.  The only headphones I heard that never rolled them off was my SE530 and LCD2.  The D7000 is also pretty good with sub bass, but the midbass is significantly boosted.
 
The only time I realised that the midbass was slightly above neutral was when I heard the HD650 with a neutral amp with a high budget, high production value hollywood movie and male voices were a tad too chesty.  Otherwise I didn't pick this up either with movies when I was using my now sold Cayin tube headamp that subdued the midbass and boosted the subbass on the HD650...this was a warmer than neutral amp in triode mode, but it was one of the best combinations I heard the HD650 with.
 
I must be the only guy that freaked when back then, I upgraded from a SACD Pioneer to the Dacmagic, the Dacmagic was leaner and brighter than the Pioneer and I felt the HD650 lost a touch of warmth that I really loved, so that amp was good for bringing it back.  Then comes the LCD2 which is actually somewhat warmer than the HD650s, but also much more extended in the treble and clearer over all by far.
 
But yeah, if the HD650 is rolled off in treble its not far off from neutral treble.  I believe it is still closer to neutral than most headphones which are significantly boosted from neutral IMO.

 

[ac500]

Whoa this is weird... I tried boosting the sub-bass, sucking out the mid-bass hump, and adding a touch of 16+khz boost (as best I could to correct for the non-neutrality I heard with the FR sweep)... and maybe it's just my imagination but suddenly these sound surprisingly better for all genres I've tested so far. (Could be just the effect of a different sound signature though)
 
The soundstage seems to open up wider and deeper with the sub-bass boost and mid-bass reduction... and it has a much more speaker-like sound now (I can't say why exactly but it absolutely does), and doesn't seem to have the artificial warmth after removing the mid-bass hump. I'm A/B-ing it with my SW equalizer so it's not placebo I think... but it will be interesting to see how I like this long-term. All I know now is for some reason I actually involuntarily picture in my head the fingering of violinists, pianists, etc. and could feel better in 3D the positioning of everything too. 
 
Edit: I get the impression that the mid-bass hump gives the HD650 its warm sound coloration. Removing it makes it sound much more neutral, which I kind of like. Oddly, I also seem to like adding a fairly big sub-bass boost just at the range bordering inaudible... it seems like by increasing the really really low end, it maybe compensates slightly for the fact that headphones cannot vibrate your chest cavity as speakers do -- i.e. by boosting the deep sub-bass (NOT mid-bass), it makes it sound more natural for some reason because the deep bass is now a bit more tactile, as it is with neutral speakers through your chest cavity.
 
Anyway, playing with EQ is very interesting. I think more people should do it, if not just to learn/train their ears about how various frequencies interact.

 

[Starfire]

I still haven't found the synergy with my B22 and HD650's.  They sound cold to me with the B22 (2 channel), maybe need some EQing.  I use my HD650's with my starving student (3 channel) and they sound like heaven.  My source is FLACs into a Gamma2  Now my D5000's sound awesome with the B22 and still sound good with the starving student but the bass is a bit boomy.

 

[derbigpr]

Does anyone else find their HD650's bright? I find them actually bright with Little Dot Mk5 amplifier and Asus Xonar ST soundcard.   I find highs to be on the edge of sibilance in most songs, and I find the highs dominating the sonic signature of almost all the songs I listen to...bass is there, but not forward, just in there, mids are natural, but highs are what dominates. And I don't think its my ears or the recordings, because I find HD558's MUCH darker than HD650's in same setup.  The mid-bass bump in frequency still gives HD650's a warm and sort of "veiled" sound, but highs for me just pop out.   I mostly listen to jazz and rock.

 

[daigo]

Quote:

Does anyone else find their HD650's bright? I find them actually bright with Little Dot Mk5 amplifier and Asus Xonar ST soundcard.   I find highs to be on the edge of sibilance in most songs, and I find the highs dominating the sonic signature of almost all the songs I listen to...bass is there, but not forward, just in there, mids are natural, but highs are what dominates. And I don't think its my ears or the recordings, because I find HD558's MUCH darker than HD650's in same setup.  The mid-bass bump in frequency still gives HD650's a warm and sort of "veiled" sound, but highs for me just pop out.   I mostly listen to jazz and rock.

 
Now calling the HD650 bright is a first.  I also listen to mostly rock and jazz with a fairly warm and musical tube amp, and haven't noticed them being overly bright.  Bass slam isn't as huge as it is with my W1000X, but the HD650 bass has a good amount of weight to it, though it is a tad slow for some faster pace songs. 
 
 

 

[CareyPrice31]

I got my 650's new for $320.00USD - good price?

 

[juantendo8]

Quote:

I got my 650's new for $320.00USD - good price?

 
That is a very good price if it is from an authorized retailer, especially considering the prices now.
 
 

 

[Starfire]

 
Quote:

Does anyone else find their HD650's bright? I find them actually bright with Little Dot Mk5 amplifier and Asus Xonar ST soundcard.   I find highs to be on the edge of sibilance in most songs, and I find the highs dominating the sonic signature of almost all the songs I listen to...bass is there, but not forward, just in there, mids are natural, but highs are what dominates. And I don't think its my ears or the recordings, because I find HD558's MUCH darker than HD650's in same setup.  The mid-bass bump in frequency still gives HD650's a warm and sort of "veiled" sound, but highs for me just pop out.   I mostly listen to jazz and rock.

Never really seen them called bright.  I listen pretty much across the gamut from black metal to Sarah Brightman, ad most between and I find them awesome at pretty much everything, though when a recording is bad, it stands out!  I would call my D5000's brighter but rarely sibilant, on a rare song or two but those same songs never sound sibilant on the HD650's, and I even have them EQed up in treble.  On a really good recording the HD650s outshine the D5000's for the most part, the soundstage is much larger but that's expected with the open backs.  
 
My source is FLACs -> Coaxial SPDIF Diamond Xtreme sound card -> AMB Gamma 2 -> Home Built 3ch Starving Student or 2ch Beta22

 

[maarek99]

When I plugged the HD650 to the Dacmagic + Rega Ear...it was kinda bright. When I plug it into the V-DAC + Black Cube Linear...it's kinda slow and boring, not bright at all.
 
Synergy.

 

[MrTwyst]

Quote:

I got my 650's new for $320.00USD - good price?

Great price. 
 
When and where?