[CaptainFantastic]

So i heard. But i havent read many complains about the frame breaking or anything.
I also like the finish better..

Depends on how long you plan on keeping them. I have an HE-60 from 1993 and I guess I am happy the plastic is of strong quality.

I wonder if Amazon sells all these returned HD-650s as B-stock or as new. It seems people use Amazon as an audition service. Not saying Amazon doesn't deserve it or can't afford it, just saying probably Sennheiser and other consumers buying used headphones as new are the likely losers here.

 

[Corti]

I wonder if Amazon sells all these returned HD-650s as B-stock or as new.

I dont know, because i havent bought anything from amazon for over 10 ten years.
And my 650's will go back to thomann where they are sold as B-Stock and im sure there are enough people that will buy them.

 

[Angel III]

Depends on how long you plan on keeping them. I have an HE-60 from 1993 and I guess I am happy the plastic is of strong quality.

I wonder if Amazon sells all these returned HD-650s as B-stock or as new. It seems people use Amazon as an audition service. Not saying Amazon doesn't deserve it or can't afford it, just saying probably Sennheiser and other consumers buying used headphones as new are the likely losers here.

I agree with you, I hope I'm wrong. More than once I have thought that everything that is returned in the first 14 days of trial, somehow returns to the factory and refurbished and then resold as a new item. I have found several headphones with very small aesthetic defects and honestly the doubt came to me.

 

[CaptainFantastic]

I agree with you, I hope I'm wrong. More than once I have thought that everything that is returned in the first 14 days of trial, somehow returns to the factory and refurbished and then resold as a new item. I have found several headphones with very small aesthetic defects and honestly the doubt came to me.

My eyes were opened to this when I ordered a polo shirt and received it as a crumpled mess. I realized Amazon simply takes some returns as they come back and sends them back out for new orders, as new.

Since then I have seen how other online shops, including Thomann, Audeze, etc., seem to have very little b-stock, far less than the return rate would suggest. I posit that the majority of headphones returned are resold as new.

So it's sad to hear of someone buying a headphone, loving it, but returning it because well... they never meant to keep it.

Whatever, there are bigger issues, but just saying.

 

[Dawgfish]

So my first HD650 arrived yesterday.

My only other hifi hp is the Hifiman Sundara (which im very satisfied with, they are awesome), along with 2 budget-ish AKG's, but given all the praise and being THE classic in the audiophile world i simply had to listen to the 650/6xx.
So what happened yesterday is i put them on and was like: wow, these are boring..
But i also was like: wow, these are neutral/flat like they dont fatigue in any way.. no mid/upperbass bloat and no sharp treble whatsoever.. the fit is also extremely easy due to being lightweight and well padded.
lets see what happens if i let them on for a while..

After a while (3 hours) i was absolutely in joy with that melting buttery sound coming out of those 650's and i immediately realized these are not a competitor to my Sundara's, these are a whole different thing. They dont encapsulate and demand all your attention like the Sundara's do, but they play happily in the background if you want them to. Though the intimate soundstage is able to bring the music very close when focusing. And i really love how disappearing they feel on my head. Right now i think the HD650 complements the Sundara very well.

Today i ordered the 6xx from drop along with sheepskin spare pads. I will return the 650's simply because they are way more expensive, plus the 3m cable ending in 6.35 is kinda out of date (or not the prefered use-case for me).

I've also ordered the ifi Zen CAN (for testing, idk if i'll keep it) which should arrive soon aswell. For now I'm powering everything from my Fiio BTR5, which works alright but sometimes misses out on enough power (but im also only using the SE/unbalanced output).

Anyways just wanted to share my first experience with the 650's with you, and i'm looking forward for hours of more smooth oiled chocolatey milk bathing (melodramatic music intensifies).



Have a good one

edit: added youtube-music

Glad you are enjoying them. Agree the 650/6XX and Sundara are great compliments to each other. They are both excellent and give the listener two very different but very good perspectives on sound.

 

[Corti]

Yea, i have just begun that hi-fi (head-fi) hobby but its sucking me in big time
i first had the HE400i (2020) before the Sundara which already blew my mind. Havent heard anything close before. But i complained about the headband being to hard, so someone recommended me to try the Sundara and i think that was a great recommendation (although i am a bit of a budget-fier for now, but that may change in the future).

Now about the complementing properties of the 2, the most obvious surely is the soundstage.
Really impressive how the Sundara manages to place instruments next to each other with a, sometimes very well defined, space in between. But that also is a weakness with some genres as i perceive it, where it is missing some 'fulness'.

And thats where 650 comes in handy with that narrower soundstage that gives the music more density, which i like for eletronic music so far. It sounds more organic (if thats the right term). Also Rock/Metal works better on them for me.

So do you have a DAC/Amp recommendation from which both headphones profit that is also within, say, max. 200$?
I see and hear Schiit everywhere (Magni/Magnius) but they currently have no stock in europe (germany). And if i order from the US i want to be sure to keep them..

 

[dbf909]

I too have settled on the Sundara and 6xx as my #1 and #2 - which is which changes day to day and week to week... I have a few others that I like but those two are my favorites. As was said earlier they really complement each other and are outstanding at different things.

I currently have lots of Schiit: two Asgard3s, a Jotumheim 1, a Jotunheim 2, a Magni3+/Modi Multibit, a Loki, a Lokius, plus a few other pieces. Some of the Asgards and Jots are running internal 4490 and Multibit cards and some are setup with external DACs (Modius). They all sound incredible to me. Each has its strengths and weaknesses but the weaknesses are few.

For $200 it is hard to beat a Magni3+/Modi3+ mini-stack. It will drive both of these headphones with ease. This is where I started my journey down the rabbit-hole and I still use this rig nearly every day in my office. Although I did upgrade to the Modi Multibit and added a Loki along the way...

A step up would be the Asgard 3 with the new ESS DAC card at $349. Both the Sundara and 6xx benefit from the additional power and design of the Asgard 3. For me it is worth the additional $. I have the Multibit DAC card in one of My Asgard 3s and a 4490 card in the other - both are fantastic with these phones. The limitation is that the DAC cards ONLY support USB whereas the Modi3+ can take USB, Toslink, and Coax inputs. But the one-box solution is nice. I use these primarily with an Android tablet running USB Audio Player.

 

[Corti]

I too have settled on the Sundara and 6xx as my #1 and #2 - which is which changes day to day and week to week... I have a few others that I like but those two are my favorites. As was said earlier they really complement each other and are outstanding at different things.

I currently have lots of Schiit: two Asgard3s, a Jotumheim 1, a Jotunheim 2, a Magni3+/Modi Multibit, a Loki, a Lokius, plus a few other pieces. Some of the Asgards and Jots are running internal 4490 and Multibit cards and some are setup with external DACs (Modius). They all sound incredible to me. Each has its strengths and weaknesses but the weaknesses are few.

For $200 it is hard to beat a Magni3+/Modi3+ mini-stack. It will drive both of these headphones with ease. This is where I started my journey down the rabbit-hole and I still use this rig nearly every day in my office. Although I did upgrade to the Modi Multibit and added a Loki along the way...

A step up would be the Asgard 3 with the new ESS DAC card at $349. Both the Sundara and 6xx benefit from the additional power and design of the Asgard 3. For me it is worth the additional $. I have the Multibit DAC card in one of My Asgard 3s and a 4490 card in the other - both are fantastic with these phones. The limitation is that the DAC cards ONLY support USB whereas the Modi3+ can take USB, Toslink, and Coax inputs. But the one-box solution is nice. I use these primarily with an Android tablet running USB Audio Player.

Thanks, really helpful information there.

While the Magni 3+ is not available at Schiit-europe, the Modi 3+ is. I think i'll get the former from overseas and add the latter some time later, if needed at all. I still have the BTR5 which i can use as DAC.
Now since i really like to fiddle with EQ n stuff the Mini Loki looks fantastic and so does the Lokius. Thank god they are available over here (note: i'm atheist). edit: they are not available, i forgot to chose the colour-type.

Prices are at Schiit-europe.com (both on sale):
Loki Mini+ = 195€ (thats 225 in $)
Lokius = 260€ (thats 300 $)

Do you think the 2 extra bands are worth 75$ more or are there other differences aswell? Like which do you use more often?

 

[Quadfather]

So my first HD650 arrived yesterday.

My only other hifi hp is the Hifiman Sundara (which im very satisfied with, they are awesome), along with 2 budget-ish AKG's, but given all the praise and being THE classic in the audiophile world i simply had to listen to the 650/6xx.
So what happened yesterday is i put them on and was like: wow, these are boring..
But i also was like: wow, these are neutral/flat like they dont fatigue in any way.. no mid/upperbass bloat and no sharp treble whatsoever.. the fit is also extremely easy due to being lightweight and well padded.
lets see what happens if i let them on for a while..

After a while (3 hours) i was absolutely in joy with that melting buttery sound coming out of those 650's and i immediately realized these are not a competitor to my Sundara's, these are a whole different thing. They dont encapsulate and demand all your attention like the Sundara's do, but they play happily in the background if you want them to. Though the intimate soundstage is able to bring the music very close when focusing. And i really love how disappearing they feel on my head. Right now i think the HD650 complements the Sundara very well.

Today i ordered the 6xx from drop along with sheepskin spare pads. I will return the 650's simply because they are way more expensive, plus the 3m cable ending in 6.35 is kinda out of date (or not the prefered use-case for me).

I've also ordered the ifi Zen CAN (for testing, idk if i'll keep it) which should arrive soon aswell. For now I'm powering everything from my Fiio BTR5, which works alright but sometimes misses out on enough power (but im also only using the SE/unbalanced output).

Anyways just wanted to share my first experience with the 650's with you, and i'm looking forward for hours of more smooth oiled chocolatey milk bathing (melodramatic music intensifies).



Have a good one

edit: added youtube-music

Source will change their character. They are smooth from my LPG, but are powerfully punchy, demanding attention at the same time. Beautiful, well extended treble without sibilance. Powerful bass, with no bloat. Zero veil. I have some special PMEQ settings for the HD650.

 

[dbf909]

Thanks, really helpful information there.

While the Magni 3+ is not available at Schiit-europe, the Modi 3+ is. I think i'll get the former from overseas and add the latter some time later, if needed at all. I still have the BTR5 which i can use as DAC.
Now since i really like to fiddle with EQ n stuff the Mini Loki looks fantastic and so does the Lokius. Thank god they are available over here (note: i'm atheist). edit: they are not available, i forgot to chose the colour-type.

Prices are at Schiit-europe.com (both on sale):
Loki Mini+ = 195€ (thats 225 in $)
Lokius = 260€ (thats 300 $)

Do you think the 2 extra bands are worth 75$ more or are there other differences aswell? Like which do you use more often?

My main headphone system is a PC (via SPDIF/coax) -> Modius -> Lokius -> Jotunheim 2. I run both the 6xx and Sundara on balanced cables out of the Jot2. The SE sounds very nice, maybe slightly warmer on some material, but I like the Balanced better.

The Loki is currently in my office system: Android Tablet (via USB) -> Modi Multibit -> Loki -> Magni 3+.

I probably use the main system more than the office system lately. In both cases I don't employ heavy EQ with the Loks. I love having the 6 bands of the Lokius since there is a bit more control in the bass region. The designs are a bit different and the channels act and interact differently. It's kind of hard to describe but they both do the job very well. I've kind of found a good set of settings for both of them and I typically leave them there. Only if there is some significant EQ deficiency in a particular recording, do I change them.

Here in the states the Lokius is double the price of the Loki. I'm not sure that it could be justified on function alone. However, I bought the Lokius primarily because of the form factor (same footprint as Jot 2 and Modius) and the balanced connectivity. I am running balanced from the Modius to the Lokius, from the Lokius to the Jot2, and out to the 'phones. The Lokius does convert to SE internally for tone processing and then back to balanced so technically it isn't balanced all the way through. I did try the same setup connected with RCAs and although it was very subtle, I felt like I liked the sound better with the balanced cabling.

So for me, If I was building a mini-stack (Magni/Modi) I would definitely add the Loki over the Lokius for aesthetic and cost reasons...

 

[Corti]

Nice, you seem to know your Schiit very well (pun partially intended).

Well my ifi Zen Can has arrived today and i'm testing it thoroughly right now. SO far I'm liking it with 650 and Sundara. The XBass does an addicting job.. Kickdrums really come to life with it. Not sure about the 3D thing, very subtle. Thats gonna be some contemplation during the night to notice the difference it does to the soundstage (but its there i can hear it a little already).

I'm pretty positive on sticking to this Amp and getting some better Dac in the future. Also looking forward to tone-fiddling with the Loki Mini+. In the end turning knobs is a different interaction while sound-processing than it is with mousewheel scrolling while looking at LCD lights..

The Lokius does convert to SE internally for tone processing and then back to balanced so technically it isn't balanced all the way through.

That's interesting, how do you even know this?
The Schiit page says as FAQ about Loki vs Lokius:

• Twice as many inputs and outputs. Lokius offers both balanced and single-ended inputs, as opposed to Loki Mini+’s single-ended only input. It also has balanced and single-ended outputs.

• Balanced and SE. If it wasn’t obvious from the above, Lokius gives you both balanced XLR and single-ended RCA capability, making it easy to integrate into any system, balanced or single-ended.

not stating anyhting about internal BAL->SE->BAL conversion.

But all the balanced stuff surely is a lil further down the rabbit hole for me. Gotta go with first things first.
Anyway thanks again for your insights and the tech-stuff!

 

[sjbrook]

Source will change their character. They are smooth from my LPG, but are powerfully punchy, demanding attention at the same time. Beautiful, well extended treble without sibilance. Powerful bass, with no bloat. Zero veil. I have some special PMEQ settings for the HD650.

Would you be willing to post your PMEQ values? Always curious to try a new profile.

 

[Gavin C4]

The HD6xx and OOR stack combo is so minimal and sounded great. The OOR got a really good power for the 6xx.

 

[Quadfather]

Would you be willing to post your PMEQ values? Always curious to try a new profile.

My LPG is going to China. I will see if I photographed.

 

[dbf909]

Nice, you seem to know your Schiit very well (pun partially intended).

Well my ifi Zen Can has arrived today and i'm testing it thoroughly right now. SO far I'm liking it with 650 and Sundara. The XBass does an addicting job.. Kickdrums really come to life with it. Not sure about the 3D thing, very subtle. Thats gonna be some contemplation during the night to notice the difference it does to the soundstage (but its there i can hear it a little already).

I'm pretty positive on sticking to this Amp and getting some better Dac in the future. Also looking forward to tone-fiddling with the Loki Mini+. In the end turning knobs is a different interaction while sound-processing than it is with mousewheel scrolling while looking at LCD lights..



That's interesting, how do you even know this?
The Schiit page says as FAQ about Loki vs Lokius:



not stating anyhting about internal BAL->SE->BAL conversion.

But all the balanced stuff surely is a lil further down the rabbit hole for me. Gotta go with first things first.
Anyway thanks again for your insights and the tech-stuff!

I'm pretty sure that I read this in a post from Jason @Schiit. He was talking about the design of the Lokius and said that they converted from Balanced to SE to implement the Tone circuits and then back to Balanced for the output. It's true that they also provide SE front to back which adds some flexibility.

It is in the FAQ page for the Lokius on the site too:

Even more tech. Is this thing really balanced?
It’s balanced and differential in and out, uses both phases in, and provides both differential phases out. However, EQ processing is done with a single-ended buffer and gain stage.

Why not “real balanced?”
Because the product would be twice the size, twice the heat, and maybe even more than twice the cost. We decided to put the money into a discrete dual-stage load-invariant superbuffer driving a discrete current-feedback gain stage, as well as custom inductors and quality capacitors, rather than trying to chase balanced-for-balanced-sake. If it makes you feel better, use the SE input and run the SE output into any of our Nexus™ products for a perfect SE-to-balanced conversion with an all-discrete stage; but, better yet, have a listen and decide if you like what it does, rather than worrying about technical minutiae.