Sennheiser HD650 & Massdrop HD6XX Impressions Thread
Jun 27, 2020 at 12:30 PM Post #43,441 of 46,535
The electrical field is not my expertise, but doesn't that applies to differential amps with single-ended outputs? Just to know more about this topic.

PS: I think differential has the advantage of not sharing ground and not risking to have a ground loop. I'll maybe upgrade my amp to differential when I get the funds to do so, but not for better audio quality, just because I want the cleanest path possible.


I'm not sure what you're asking with differential amps and singled outputs but I think it is this: Doesn't the noise get canceled (rejected) when the differential signal is summed on the single ended outputs, but not the differential outputs because they are not summed?

The answer is the noise in the differential signal is rejected when the signal "summed" by the headphones themselves. The diaphragm is driven by the difference between the + and - channels and that is where noise is rejected. Note also that a single ended connection rejects common noise present in the the signal and ground. Apologies if I missed your question.

As for ground loops, sure differential is cleaner. But IMO a ground loop is (almost always) the result of a problem that needs to be fixed.

And FWIW I like the differential connection from my WA22 to HD-650 better than the single ended.
 
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Jun 27, 2020 at 12:36 PM Post #43,442 of 46,535
I'm not sure what you're asking with differential amps and singled outputs but I think it is this: Doesn't the noise get canceled (rejected) when the differential signal is summed on the single ended outputs, but not the differential outputs because they are not summed?

The answer is the noise in the differential signal is rejected when the signal "summed" by the headphones themselves. The diaphragm is driven by the difference between the + and - channels and that is where noise is rejected. Note also that a single ended connection rejects common noise present in the the signal and ground. Apologies if I missed your question.

As for ground loops, sure differential is cleaner. But IMO a ground loop is (almost always) the result of a problem that needs to be fixed.

And FWIW I like the differential connection from my WA22 to HD-650 better than the single ended.
What I was asking was if well-designed single-ended only designs don't have these issues or have them or have them but not as severe as differential designs that happen to have a single-ended output. But yes, thanks for the information.
 
Jun 27, 2020 at 12:48 PM Post #43,443 of 46,535
Single ended and differential systems are equally susceptible to noise depending on the details of their design, but of course that is only one of many many factors that determine whether or not you're going to like the sound of a particular system.
 
Jun 28, 2020 at 6:05 PM Post #43,444 of 46,535
I am enjoying the HD650s a lot I must say, have bought a pair a couple of weeks ago and what strikes me the most for now is how excellent their bass is.
The biggest complaint from people who adore their HD650s is that there's either too little bass, especially a lack of the lower bass or that there's too much mid-bass (coming mostly form HD600 enthusiasts).
From all the headphones I own the HD650 have the most detailed and textured bass, the resolution is from another world. F*ck Denon D5000's bass, yes it goes lower, but witout definition. The NighHawks come close in low-end detail, it depends on the recording, sometimes the Hawks are better defined (most definitely in quantity), but overall the HD650s resolve much better and all this with a similar bloom in certain tracks as the Nighthawks. And that's really surprising, because the consensus is that many if not most headphones easily beat the HD650 in bass performance. Is that so? I beg to differ :)
 
Jun 28, 2020 at 6:55 PM Post #43,445 of 46,535
I am enjoying the HD650s a lot I must say, have bought a pair a couple of weeks ago and what strikes me the most for now is how excellent their bass is.
The biggest complaint from people who adore their HD650s is that there's either too little bass, especially a lack of the lower bass or that there's too much mid-bass (coming mostly form HD600 enthusiasts).
From all the headphones I own the HD650 have the most detailed and textured bass, the resolution is from another world. F*ck Denon D5000's bass, yes it goes lower, but witout definition. The NighHawks come close in low-end detail, it depends on the recording, sometimes the Hawks are better defined (most definitely in quantity), but overall the HD650s resolve much better and all this with a similar bloom in certain tracks as the Nighthawks. And that's really surprising, because the consensus is that many if not most headphones easily beat the HD650 in bass performance. Is that so? I beg to differ :)

Well said. I've had HD-650s for years and didn't really think about them beyond they sounded really good. Then I got a WA22 a few months ago and now my opinion is the HD-650 sounds like your amp. I use the WA22 as a preamp, a lot, so I can compare the changes that different tubes make to both the 'phones and to the stereo. So when I roll tubes I hear more or less bass, more or less high end sparkle, better or worse imaging etc. etc. And with the right tubes in the WA22 the HD-650s gives me pretty much everything: deep, tight well defined bass, beautiful detailed mids and high end air and sparkle for days. Maybe there are headphones that do those things better, but I don't want to spend the time or money to find out.
 
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Jun 28, 2020 at 7:04 PM Post #43,446 of 46,535
Well said. I've had HD-650s for years and didn't really think about them beyond they sounded really good. Then I got a WA22 a few months ago and now my opinion is the HD-650 sounds like your amp. I use the WA22 as a preamp, a lot, so I can compare the changes that different tubes make both the 'phones and to the stereo. So whenI roll tubes I hear more or less bass, more or less high end sparkle, better or worse imaging etc. etc. And with the right tubes in the WA22 the HD-650s gives me pretty much everything: deep, tight well defined bass, beautiful detailed mids and high end air and sparkle for days. Maybe there are headphones that do those things better, but I don't want to spend the time or money to find out.
Couldn't agree more with you about rolling tubes and HD650's.
 
Jun 29, 2020 at 6:25 AM Post #43,447 of 46,535
Soundstage-wise they are maybe below average. My other headphones, with the exception of the Sennheiser Momentum MKIIs (a coincidence? :)) have a broader and better rounded and defined soundstage.
The three blobs are a given, I agree with that. But I don't find it bothersome. It is not that obvious most of the time. But especially my Nightbirds, D5000s and MDR-Z7s do a significant better job, there's no point denying that. Still, I like the D650s with classical music a lot.

And to add something more positive: I think they are aesthetically very pleasing.
 
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Jun 29, 2020 at 1:44 PM Post #43,448 of 46,535
I am enjoying the HD650s a lot I must say, have bought a pair a couple of weeks ago and what strikes me the most for now is how excellent their bass is.
The biggest complaint from people who adore their HD650s is that there's either too little bass, especially a lack of the lower bass or that there's too much mid-bass (coming mostly form HD600 enthusiasts).
From all the headphones I own the HD650 have the most detailed and textured bass, the resolution is from another world. F*ck Denon D5000's bass, yes it goes lower, but witout definition. The NighHawks come close in low-end detail, it depends on the recording, sometimes the Hawks are better defined (most definitely in quantity), but overall the HD650s resolve much better and all this with a similar bloom in certain tracks as the Nighthawks. And that's really surprising, because the consensus is that many if not most headphones easily beat the HD650 in bass performance. Is that so? I beg to differ :)
My LCD-2 politely agrees. They are really good, but there are headphones that have better bass and better resolution overall, that's a fact that you can even measure. Even though, I consider the HD 650 somewhat bloated (because of the mid-bass hump) compared to other options in the market, but they are really good for the price and overall.
 
Jun 29, 2020 at 2:58 PM Post #43,449 of 46,535
My LCD-2 politely agrees. They are really good, but there are headphones that have better bass and better resolution overall, that's a fact that you can even measure. Even though, I consider the HD 650 somewhat bloated (because of the mid-bass hump) compared to other options in the market, but they are really good for the price and overall.
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Jun 29, 2020 at 5:28 PM Post #43,450 of 46,535
I've managed to out on the Shure 1540 alcantara pads on my HD 650. I got the pad ring out from my Yaxi pads (they're not glued on to the pads), and put the Shure pads on those rings.

It was very difficult, the pad tends to get loose very easily from the rings, I had to use tape so that it won't fall out.

Will give a listen the next few days. I'd EXPECT the most resonant free sound as of yet, since those pads do that to any headphone I've tried them on, but I'll see (hear).
 
Jun 29, 2020 at 7:27 PM Post #43,452 of 46,535
I am in need of a new set of pads, and decided to go OEM based on the very mixed reviews of aftermarket pads I've seen.

On Sennheiser's website part#050635 is the replacement (link), and it is stated as the replacement pads for everything from the HD580 to the HD660s.

The problem is that the reviews of the 660s I've read have commented the pads are much deeper. Which if applied to my HD600 is pretty much guaranteed to change the sound signature.

Does anyone know if the stock HD600/HD650 pads have a different part number than the HD660s pads? If not, anyone know of a way to get the "old" pads short of buying and cannibalizing a HD6xx?
 
Jun 29, 2020 at 9:25 PM Post #43,453 of 46,535
I am in need of a new set of pads, and decided to go OEM based on the very mixed reviews of aftermarket pads I've seen.

On Sennheiser's website part#050635 is the replacement (link), and it is stated as the replacement pads for everything from the HD580 to the HD660s.

The problem is that the reviews of the 660s I've read have commented the pads are much deeper. Which if applied to my HD600 is pretty much guaranteed to change the sound signature.

Does anyone know if the stock HD600/HD650 pads have a different part number than the HD660s pads? If not, anyone know of a way to get the "old" pads short of buying and cannibalizing a HD6xx?
Those are the new HD 650 pads. As far as I can tell they're about the same depth as the old pads, aside from my old pads being worn out and squashed. I haven't discerned much that's changed about the sound with the new pads (granted I didn't do any A/B testing, or anything).
 
Jun 29, 2020 at 9:27 PM Post #43,454 of 46,535
Those are the new HD 650 pads. As far as I can tell they're about the same depth as the old pads, aside from my old pads being worn out and squashed. I haven't discerned much that's changed about the sound with the new pads (granted I didn't do any A/B testing, or anything).

I didn't know they changed the pads on the HD650 at some point. Are the new HD650 pads the same as the HD660s pads?
 
Jun 29, 2020 at 9:30 PM Post #43,455 of 46,535
I didn't know they changed the pads on the HD650 at some point. Are the new HD650 pads the same as the HD660s pads?
Yes. I think the only difference is that the inside is beveled/wedge-shaped rather than round. Maybe they're a darker black, too (or maybe my old ones were just gross and dirty).
 

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