[mysticstryk]

My wife wants to know what I want for christmas.  I'm thinking...tube amp?  Right now I just have my modi/magni stack.
 
I know Project Ember gets thrown around a lot, but that's out of the budget.  Out of the Garage1217 amps I can afford are:
 
- Starlight
- Sunrise III
- Solstice
 
Basicially, $250 max. I'm secretly hoping Starlight matches best with my hd650 as I'd much prefer keeping it under $200.
 
(as a side note, I also have a 400i and might be getting a closed planar next year too[Mad Dog or PM-3])
 
EDIT:  My DAC that will feed into the amp is the Modi 2 Uber.

 

[DavidA]

  My wife wants to know what I want for christmas.  I'm thinking...tube amp?  Right now I just have my modi/magni stack.
 
I know Project Ember gets thrown around a lot, but that's out of the budget.  Out of the Garage1217 amps I can afford are:
 
- Starlight
- Sunrise III
- Solstice
 
Basicially, $250 max. I'm secretly hoping Starlight matches best with my hd650 as I'd much prefer keeping it under $200.
 
(as a side note, I also have a 400i and might be getting a closed planar next year too[Mad Dog or PM-3])
 
EDIT:  My DAC that will feed into the amp is the Modi 2 Uber.

For use with HD-650 and a planar I would go with the Solstice, most flexible of the 3 and except for the manual voltage its close to the Ember

 

[mysticstryk]

  For use with HD-650 and a planar I would go with the Solstice, most flexible of the 3 and except for the manual voltage its close to the Ember

 
What kind of differences are there between the lower cost Starlight and the Solstice?
 
I'm also open to other suggestions outside of Garage1217 that would have good synergy with my hd650 and planars.

 

[iancraig10]

The Ember is a good match with the hd650. Which planars are you taliking about though? The Ember certainly has enough power to drive anything really. For me, it's better with higher impedance headphones. With lower impedances, it's better if the headphone is less sensitive like the AKG K712, since then you don't pick up tube noise.

If you're concerned about tube noise in low impedance cans, actually, my favourite is the Polaris. Slightly tubey in sound and for me, a little bit cleaner. The Ember with hd650 is particularly good though.

 

[raybone0566]

What kind of differences are there between the lower cost Starlight and the Solstice?

I'm also open to other suggestions outside of Garage1217 that would have good synergy with my hd650 and planars.

I've got a violectric hpa v90, has plenty of gain. Drives my he-560's, and the entire hd series.

 

[DavidA]

   
What kind of differences are there between the lower cost Starlight and the Solstice?
 
I'm also open to other suggestions outside of Garage1217 that would have good synergy with my hd650 and planars.

Main difference is the output stage, op-amps vs solid state.
 
The Lyr2 will work but its out of your price range @ $450, the O2-ODAC is pretty good but for me it was to lean and its usually about $270, maybe others can chime in with some suggestions?

 

[iancraig10]

The Horizon is also excellent value and powerful.

 

[jimmers]

  Main difference is the output stage, op-amps vs solid state.

?
I thought both had op-amp outputs, and the main difference was current capability i.e. more power into low impedance loads (more suitable for low efficiency planars?).
 
Edit: Solstice vs Starlight that is, power out of starlight also depends on number/type of output op-amps.

 

[DavidA]

  ?
I thought both had op-amp outputs, and the main difference was current capability i.e. more power into low impedance loads (more suitable for low efficiency planars?).
 
Edit: Solstice vs Starlight that is, power out of starlight also depends on number/type of output op-amps.

The Solstice is like the Ember with SS output stage, not op-amps like the Starlight where you can roll op-amps

 

[jimmers]

 
The Solstice is like the Ember with SS output stage, not op-amps like the Starlight where you can roll op-amps

Don't really want to derail, but ... from BB
"DESCRIPTION
The OPA551 and OPA552 are low cost op amps with high-voltage (60V) and high-current (200mA) capability."
edit:Compared to NJM4556 they are not low cost.
 
Sure, you can't roll them, their bodies are soldered to heatsink pads but they are still op amps; monolithic op amps are SS anyhoo.

 

[Tuneslover]

I picked up a pair of Sennheiser HD598's during that Black Friday sale and received them yesterday.  I have them burning in on my NAD C326BEE (source: Satellite Jazz station).  I just finished sneaking a brief listen, my eyebrows shot up in surprised delight.  They are supposed to be a Christmas gift from my mother-in-law so I will be wrapping them up on the 24th.  Might as well keep burning them in until then.  I can't wait to do a head-to-head with my HD650's.

 

[DavidA]

  Don't really want to derail, but ... from BB
"DESCRIPTION
The OPA551 and OPA552 are low cost op amps with high-voltage (60V) and high-current (200mA) capability."
edit:Compared to NJM4556 they are not low cost.
 
Sure, you can't roll them, their bodies are soldered to heatsink pads but they are still op amps; monolithic op amps are SS anyhoo.

+1, info I posted was from G1217 site in description of amps, and yes op-amps are a subset of SS amps

 

[painted klown]

Burn-in helps a bit, breaking in the pads helps a bit, the right amp helps a bit, some cheap mods help a bit.

I can't link the forum with mods but PM me if you want them.

I pulled the foam out from the back and added some dynamat but didn't do the coin mod.

Not sure I would be good at doing any mods, but would be interested in reading about them for sure. It seems like a lot of little things can add up quickly with these 'phones.
 

 
I just got the HD650 and also have the HE-500 and ZMF Blackwood (both of which have amazing "planar bass" that extends down to 20Hz).  The sub-bass on the HD650 definitely isn't there in the same quantity, but I find the actual extension to still be really good.  I can still hear the same information, it just isn't as elevated.  I do sometimes crave more sub-bass rumble and heft (mainly for electronic genres), which is why I'm still holding on to and enjoying my planars.  For actual real life instruments, I find the bass quantity on HD650 to be satisfactory.
 
I subjectively found a modest increase in bass quantity after a few days burn-in, but it's probably just my mind playing tricks on me.
 
In some ways, the treble character is similar.  To say the HD650 is "rolled off" on both ends isn't entirely incorrect.  Less treble quantity than the brighter headphones out there, but (with some exceptions) I find the same information audible, just at a lower level.
 
Keep in mind that my chain is pretty modest (upgrades incoming) so impressions might change with better DAC / amp.

Thanks for the info. Would you say the HE-500 sounds "mellow" (non-fatiguging) like the 650, even at really high volume?
 

  IMHO you're reading too many forum posts/opinions. Don't wring your hands over  breakin issues, they're all greatly exaggerated.

I seem to be a "part time believer" when it comes to burn in. With my 'phones, the only ones I noticed a "big" change in, was my Grado SR80i. Although the 650 seems to be coming along now. I did a couple nights of LOUD movie watching with them, that will work those new suspensions...lol!
 

 

 
Thanks, doing some listening as I type this.
 
Question in regards to burn in on the 650. Does it affect the bass much or at all?
 
Early impressions are VERY favorable, however, the bass is not as extended as I had expected. Hoping burn in will fill it out a bit...maybe wishful thinking?
 
Any/all opinions welcome.
 
Speaking of burn in, I don't think I will be able to get anywhere near 200 hrs on these things by Friday night. I could perhaps come close by playing pink noise through them while I sleep, but I always worry that doing so would kill the drivers.

 


More power. You need a more powerful amp with a lot of voltage swing.

Ok, after reading this, I decided to do a little experimenting. Up until about an hour ago (or so) I had been playing the 650 from my Emotiva DC-1 DAC/Amp, thinking it would be far better than my iPhone 6, 5.5 gen iPod video, and my Nextbook Flexx 10 tablet.
 
Something wonderfully odd happened when swapping sources. The iphone 6 (to me) was the most different sounding, and not bad IMO. Here's the weird thing though. The DC-1 can drive the 650s to "ear bleed" levels. I have came no where near maxing the volume out on it, but I have went REALLY loud, trying to eek more bass from the 650s. The iPhone 6 could not push the volume level as high as the DC-1, BUT there was an audible difference in the bass. There seemed to be a bit more of it, and it also seemed to reach deeper than the Emotiva unit. I don't get it...

How can the iPhone 6 (that cannot play as loud as the DC-1) have better bass at the lesser volume? Note, the iPhone was turned up all the way. I am a total noob to this stuff, but I would assume that the more powerful amp (read the one that goes the loudest) would get the most out of my headphones. Of course, this could have all been in my head, but I honestly don't feel that it was.
 
I then jumped to my Nextbook tablet (volume cranked as well), and it was essentially a quieter version of the DC-1's amps except that it sounded a bit more "round" (less detail/high end retrieval), and the 5.5 gen iPod video was somewhere in between. Lacking the "punch" of the iPhone, but a bit more alive/livlier sounding than the tablet.
 
All of this leads me to believe that all of my sources are holding the 650 back a bit. Makes me pine for a high quality amp, so that I can see what these 'phones are truly capable of. I have always considered the DC-1 to be a polite sounding DAC and amp, in fact, that was what made me buy a second one! I think it's great on my Grado's (the only source that I have liked them on) and just fine on my ATH-M50X (these are bass cannons on just about everything, the DC-1 included). I also really enjoy this polite sound with my HD-598s. However, with the 650, I have a feeling that a more aggressive amp may be better?

On literally every other headphone I own, I prefer the DC-1 to everything else I have, all of my other headphones are brighter (to some degree) than the 650, however (with the exception of the Beats solo2, which seems rolled off in the treble IMO).
 
This review is going to be tough to do...HAHAHHAHAHA!

 

 

[Sal1950]

  Not sure I would be good at doing any mods, but would be interested in reading about them for sure. It seems like a lot of little things can add up quickly with these 'phones.
 
Something wonderfully odd happened when swapping sources. The iphone 6 (to me) was the most different sounding, and not bad IMO. Here's the weird thing though. The DC-1 can drive the 650s to "ear bleed" levels. I have came no where near maxing the volume out on it, but I have went REALLY loud, trying to eek more bass from the 650s. The iPhone 6 could not push the volume level as high as the DC-1, BUT there was an audible difference in the bass. There seemed to be a bit more of it, and it also seemed to reach deeper than the Emotiva unit. I don't get it...

How can the iPhone 6 (that cannot play as loud as the DC-1) have better bass at the lesser volume? Note, the iPhone was turned up all the way. I am a total noob to this stuff, but I would assume that the more powerful amp (read the one that goes the loudest) would get the most out of my headphones. Of course, this could have all been in my head, but I honestly don't feel that it was.
 
I then jumped to my Nextbook tablet (volume cranked as well), and it was essentially a quieter version of the DC-1's amps except that it sounded a bit more "round" (less detail/high end retrieval), and the 5.5 gen iPod video was somewhere in between. Lacking the "punch" of the iPhone, but a bit more alive/livlier sounding than the tablet.
 
All of this leads me to believe that all of my sources are holding the 650 back a bit. Makes me pine for a high quality amp, so that I can see what these 'phones are truly capable of. I have always considered the DC-1 to be a polite sounding DAC and amp, in fact, that was what made me buy a second one! I think it's great on my Grado's (the only source that I have liked them on) and just fine on my ATH-M50X (these are bass cannons on just about everything, the DC-1 included). I also really enjoy this polite sound with my HD-598s. However, with the 650, I have a feeling that a more aggressive amp may be better?

On literally every other headphone I own, I prefer the DC-1 to everything else I have, all of my other headphones are brighter (to some degree) than the 650, however (with the exception of the Beats solo2, which seems rolled off in the treble IMO).
 
This review is going to be tough to do...HAHAHHAHAHA!

 

If I had to attempt a guess I'd say the cheap $.05 op-amp chips in your iphone and tablet, running with the volume maxed out and trying to drive a high impedance load like your HD 650, are in big trouble. Distortion levels, specially in the bass range most likely off the charts. Yea the bass may give you the impression of having more punch with all the doubling, etc going on. Being a "total noob" you have to ask yourself does my impression of better sound from two cheap, badly matched products driving near state of the art phones maybe say there's something in err with my expectations?
Your DC-1 may not be the best DAC/Amp on earth but its for sure in the top 1% and worlds ahead of an iphone. Besides the fact that I own and love the sound of the same combo and have over 50  years experience at this stuff.  Don't mean to heart your feeling here but somethings not adding up in your listening impressions..

 

[mysticstryk]

  +1, info I posted was from G1217 site in description of amps, and yes op-amps are a subset of SS amps

 
I've never owned a tube amp before, so please forgive my ignorance on the subject, but I thought that the Solstice and Starlight were both tube amps?  I'm just looking for a good first tube amp that I can try out with different tubes.