[Topazus]

  Hotel California is one of the most insipid recordings I've ever heard.
 
It's a great song but the recording is bland, bland, bland. Reference all the hi-res versions. Still bland, bland, bland.
 
Best guitar solo ever though, that counts.
 
YMMV.

I'm curious why you'd think that. You say it's bland, and I don't really know what you're talking about. It sounds like an excellent recording in every way when I check it. And I do have high-res flac versions. What exactly is the problem in it?

 

[SomeGuyDude]

  I'm curious why you'd think that. You say it's bland, and I don't really know what you're talking about. It sounds like an excellent recording in every way when I check it. And I do have high-res flac versions. What exactly is the problem in it?

 
The drums in particular are TERRIBLE. They're muffled and flat at the same time. 

 

[iancraig10]

Thanks for this recommendation. Do you find the adjustable BW on Polaris to be a desirable feature to have, with the 650?

May check out Polaris sometime.

cheers

I don't use the BW setting much tbh. I just leave it on wide. The effect is ro roll the treble down slightly so if you had a pair of sharp sounding headohones, you can take the edge off the top and stop it screeching. That's really not necessary on rhe Senn HD650 so high bandwidth is fine.

 

[Jeff Y]

Sennheiser used to demo the hd650 with the Graham Slee Solo. I had one and liked it, but nowadays, I'm not so sure that it's great value for money. I saw some performance figures way back for the Solo compared with something else, and it put me off the Solo so I sold it. Mine actually went to China!! (As opposed to the other way around

)

I have both an Ember and Polaris and if anything, I slightly prefer the Polaris with it. Power managent seems easier on the Senn and the sound is slightly less 'fruity' than the Ember. On the face of it, many would prefer the Ember and then continue on to go through a barrage of tubes which to me always suggests that they want improvements. The Ember is impressive alongside the Polaris which doesn't sound quite so 'flashy'.

It's that ordinary kind of sound that I actually like. It sounds a fraction cleaner and has less of a tubey flavour, although it is voiced to emulate a tube sound but has less of it. So it's not as 'sqeaky' as some ss amps and has a roundness about its sound that isn't quite as much as the Ember.

I feel that the hd600 is better with the Ember and the 650 with the Polaris.

That's just my preference though, but thought I'd try and let you know why to help you with choices.

Sounds good. Only if Garage 1217 stuff were available for demo at home... but it's affordable

 

[xkonfuzed]

I like Hotel California. Its a nice song. 

 

[Topazus]

  I like Hotel California. Its a nice song. 

We're talking about the quality of the recording. More than one poster here says it's horrible. 
 
I just looked up the history of the song and its recording engineer says he forgot what microphones he ended up using to record it, because he used so many. 
 
This is the 650 thread and many of you used the 650 to listen to it. Maybe that's why you thought the drums are muffled. This recording isn't bright at all. Add the 650 warmth and it may sound muffled.
 
They're probably perfectly crisp and resonant on T1, HD800, HD600, or 880/990.

 

[SomeGuyDude]

  We're talking about the quality of the recording. More than one poster here says it's horrible. 
 
I just looked up the history of the song and its recording engineer says he forgot what microphones he ended up using to record it, because he used so many. 
 
This is the 650 thread and many of you used the 650 to listen to it. Maybe that's why you thought the drums are muffled. This recording isn't bright at all. Add the 650 warmth and it may sound muffled.
 
They're probably perfectly crisp and resonant on T1, HD800, HD600, or 880/990.

 
Oh come on, you're blaming the 650s? So what does that say about drums that sound great on the 650s, they're recorded badly? 

 
Just because the guy used a boatload of mics doesn't mean squat. It says nothing about the recording techniques used, the mastering process, or even the acoustics of the room or how well placed they were. By contrast, the drum opening from When the Levee Breaks was two overhead mics in a dang stairwell and that lick is LEGENDARY, as well as sounding iconic.
 
They also sound flat, not just muffled. The kick drum has no meat to it whatsoever. It's this weak little "piff" sound. No boom, no thud. In a set of 600s it's going to have even less. 

 

[xkonfuzed]

  We're talking about the quality of the recording. More than one poster here says it's horrible. 
 
I just looked up the history of the song and its recording engineer says he forgot what microphones he ended up using to record it, because he used so many. 
 
This is the 650 thread and many of you used the 650 to listen to it. Maybe that's why you thought the drums are muffled. This recording isn't bright at all. Add the 650 warmth and it may sound muffled.
 
They're probably perfectly crisp and resonant on T1, HD800, HD600, or 880/990.

Just had a listen to it through my 880's. Still sounds great, just like it did with the 650's. No idea what you guys are talking about. 

 

[Topazus]

   
Oh come on, you're blaming the 650s? So what does that say about drums that sound great on the 650s, they're recorded badly? 

 
Just because the guy used a boatload of mics doesn't mean squat. It says nothing about the recording techniques used, the mastering process, or even the acoustics of the room or how well placed they were. By contrast, the drum opening from When the Levee Breaks was two overhead mics in a dang stairwell and that lick is LEGENDARY, as well as sounding iconic.
 
They also sound flat, not just muffled. The kick drum has no meat to it whatsoever. It's this weak little "piff" sound. No boom, no thud. In a set of 600s it's going to have even less. 

Not blaming the 650s. I like 'em. But they are the warmest professional headphone on the face of the earth. With warmly mastered recordings they sound a bit muffled. This isn't controversial. 

 

[SomeGuyDude]

  Not blaming the 650s. I like 'em. But they are the warmest professional headphone on the face of the earth. With warmly mastered recordings they sound a bit muffled. This isn't controversial. 

 
This isn't "a bit muffled". This is "they sound like they're being played with speakers on the other side of a thick blanket". Everything is simultaneously muffled and thin. The drums sound just plain awful. I'm actually not surprised you said they used a lot of mics, it SOUNDS like a recording done with all the microphones pressed against the various instruments, there's no room noise, no "size" to the recording. Everything sounds teeny tiny. A brighter headphone wouldn't help because you'd actually end up losing even more of the "meat" of the sound, which is pretty minuscule to begin with.
 
Remember, if you listen to one headphone enough, you acclimate to its sound. For HC to sound particularly muffled and flat in the 650s means it has to sound like that compared to other recordings we listen to through the 650s.

 

[Solrighal]

I had to listen to Hotel California again to see if I was right in my recollection or not. I have three versions of the song & they're all pretty much the same. The 24-bit  version does seem to have a bit more sparkle to it but that's about the only difference. As the Dude says, the drums are weak, particularly the kick drum which doesn't seem to have much weight to it. The thing for me though is that the song doesn't really scale well. Usually you'll find that a well recorded song gets better & better the higher up the reproduction ladder you go & Hotel California doesn't. It sounds pretty decent on AM radio & it sounds pretty decent on a relatively high-end headphone rig. That's maybe a compliment. Damned with faint praise & all that. What's odd is that it's not an Eagles thing; some of their music sounds spectacular.
 
Anyway, maybe best to forget I said what I did. It's a great song & my opinion might be slightly jaded because I've heard it so many times. It must be thousands of times by now.

 

[SomeGuyDude]

  I had to listen to Hotel California again to see if I was right in my recollection or not. I have three versions of the song & they're all pretty much the same. The 24-bit  version does seem to have a bit more sparkle to it but that's about the only difference. As the Dude says, the drums are weak, particularly the kick drum which doesn't seem to have much weight to it. The thing for me though is that the song doesn't really scale well. Usually you'll find that a well recorded song gets better & better the higher up the reproduction ladder you go & Hotel California doesn't. It sounds pretty decent on AM radio & it sounds pretty decent on a relatively high-end headphone rig. That's maybe a compliment. Damned with faint praise & all that. What's odd is that it's not an Eagles thing; some of their music sounds spectacular.
 
Anyway, maybe best to forget I said what I did. It's a great song & my opinion might be slightly jaded because I've heard it so many times. It must be thousands of times by now.

 
I remember reading (somewhere...) that a lot of "pop" music is made knowing full well that a lot of people will be listening to it on cheap car speakers or headphones. Since the wide majority of people aren't dropping $500+ on headphones and however much on amps and DACs, making music that seems to require the extra horsepower to like it is a fool's errand. I have no idea how that applies to older recordings but it's food for thought.
 
I admit I notice drums before anything else, and it's one thing that drives me insane about IEMs (for example). Because the music is so specifically piped in from the sides, I notice it when the drums are panned funny and it renders some recordings unlistenable. Bigger speakers give a much greater sense of "space" so it's easier to deal with.

 

[Topazus]

All right. All the points are well taken. Maybe you guys can recommend a song (similar style to Hotel California) which is a superb recording. I want to see the contrast between them as far as recording quality. 

 

[SomeGuyDude]

  All right. All the points are well taken. Maybe you guys can recommend a song (similar style to Hotel California) which is a superb recording. I want to see the contrast between them as far as recording quality. 

 
Does When the Levee Breaks count? I mentioned it once already but it bears repeating because it's known as one of the best drum recordings of all time. A lot of Zepp sounds awesome actually. Toss in The Who's "Who Are You" while we're at it. To my ears, both of these sound incredible. Who Are You is much less "roomy" than Levee Breaks so that should help with the contrast. Add Kansas's "Carry On My Wayward Son" while we're at it.
 
The difference you gotta listen for isn't how LOUD, for example, the kicks are. They tend to be mixed low in a lot of classic rock because drummers were just "support", but how what's there sounds. 
 
Those sound a lot better to me. Tons crisper, less flat. 

 

[Solrighal]

Is Hotel California Classic Rock? I'd have put it in the Country Rock genre myself & that's a genre that's not particularly well served by audio engineers, even today. I don't think any Led Zep is particularly well recorded either, to be honest, and I've just discovered I have no Kansas whatsoever

 
If we're talking about that era though you could do worse than listen to Silk Degrees by Boz Scaggs. Any track you like really. Wonderful from start to finish. All the instruments have their place in the mix & never seem to be competing in a volume competition. A very sweet recording imho.
 
Year of the Cat by Al Stewart is also recorded beautifully. 1976 was a damned good year