[DDDamian]

   
Actually it's kinda funny with Audeze because you'll find plenty of people intentionally seeking out older models. The pre-fazor LCD-2's are in high demand I've noticed. I know I adored them and wouldn't want them to have changed at all, I just had to pare down my system a bit. 

I think I got lucky. The first bunch out had lots of issues with driver failure and the wood cups cracking. The later fazor models were great to some, less so to others who'd heard both: clearer, more defined and with better imaging but at the cost of some of the signature sound and bass impact. Mine are the bamboo variant (the rosewood is gorgeous but more prone to cracking) and have the metal angled connectors, and are pre-fazor. Touch wood (lol) so far so good and the sound really is special.

 

[olor1n]

My last LCD-2 was a pre-fazor "rev2.5" (rosewood, angled metal connectors). It was a much improved product over the first LCD-2 rev.2 I owned, not only in terms of sound quality, but also in the finish. My first pair looked like a DIY product and was rough around the edges. The second pair was gorgeous and more deserving of the asking price at the time (I purchased both brand new, direct from Audez'e).
 
So yes, I did feel like a beta-tester for these products, and that experience is what has saved me from getting swept away by the initial rabid fanfare surrounding the EL-8. In fairness though, I have had similar experiences with Audio-GD, and even Schiit for being an early adaptor (i.e. beta-tester).
 
These days, I'm just happy to enjoy my current system whilst others flock to the next flavour of the month.

 

[DDDamian]

  My last LCD-2 was a pre-fazor "rev2.5" (rosewood, angled metal connectors). It was a much improved product over the first LCD-2 rev.2 I owned, not only in terms of sound quality, but also in the finish. My first pair looked like a DIY product and was rough around the edges. The second pair was gorgeous and more deserving of the asking price at the time (I purchased both brand new, direct from Audez'e).
 
So yes, I did feel like a beta-tester for these products, and that experience is what has saved me from getting swept away by the initial rabid fanfare surrounding the EL-8. In fairness though, I have had similar experiences with Audio-GD, and even Schiit for being an early adaptor (i.e. beta-tester).
 
These days, I'm just happy to enjoy my current system whilst others flock to the next flavour of the month.

Hi olor1n - I followed some of your early dislike for those cans over in it's (second) thread. You definitely weren't a fan early on lol. Your second pair seemed to suit you better, although IIRC you still prefer the HD-800's.
 
I do wish mine were the rosewoods for pure aesthetics, but couldn't be happier with the sound. Not nearly as dark as the 2.1's, but with the deep deep bass of the pre-fazor. One of the most even FR's out there despite the upper shelf. But I guess most of us here wouldn't be on the 650 thread here if we weren't drawn more to the warmer sigs.

 

[olor1n]

@DDDamian - I'd be all over the EL-8 if it had the sound quality of my pre-fazor rev.2.5. That sound, at the EL-8 price bracket, in a headphone design akin to a luxury HD650... maybe in the next revision.

 

[jimmers]

  I disagree!
 

I came here for an argument and you just contradicted.
 

 

[DDDamian]

  @DDDamian - I'd be all over the EL-8 if it had the sound quality of my pre-fazor rev.2.5. That sound, at the EL-8 price bracket, in a headphone design akin to a luxury HD650... maybe in the next revision.

just putting on the 650's again after the LCD's: my head feels light lol. Yep - next revision

 

[SomeGuyDude]

  I think I got lucky. The first bunch out had lots of issues with driver failure and the wood cups cracking. The later fazor models were great to some, less so to others who'd heard both: clearer, more defined and with better imaging but at the cost of some of the signature sound and bass impact. Mine are the bamboo variant (the rosewood is gorgeous but more prone to cracking) and have the metal angled connectors, and are pre-fazor. Touch wood (lol) so far so good and the sound really is special.

 
Same here. The set I had were Rosewood, taken great care of, and had a nearly ruler flat response from 1-1000Hz and then a pretty gentle drop after that. Pre-fazor as well. I miss the sound, but I don't miss the heaviness and having the giant equipment. 

 

[DDDamian]

   
Same here. The set I had were Rosewood, taken great care of, and had a nearly ruler flat response from 1-1000Hz and then a pretty gentle drop after that. Pre-fazor as well. I miss the sound, but I don't miss the heaviness and having the giant equipment. 

Mine have the slightest dip below 20hz from the normal ruler-flat line, but a little flatter up above 4kHz than most of the graphs I've seen, Damned if I can differentiate below 20hz though lol. I don't find them uncomfortable at all - quite the opposite, but the weight is there, It's well dispersed, and the lambskin is a nice touch for a carnivore like me, but damn these 650's are like taking off the work-boots and putting on slippers lmao.

 

[DavidA]

  Okay, had a chance to plug into the Gustard, and here's my take on a few samples I know very well:
 
- the Gustard with the 650's is smoooooooth. In a good way and a not-so-good way depending on your tastes.

1. Listening to Adele and Natalie Marchant, the dusky female vocals come through beautifully (this is the gorgeous mids of the 650's so no surprise). The Adele was from a 24/96 vinyl rip which I know has some wow-and-flutter and a few pesky pops - none of that was the least evident.
2. Moving on to something edgier: Dave Matthews and Tim Reynolds - Live at Radio City. A very good acoustic recording where the strings are very raw and edgy, very clear. Just enough bite in the strings to feel the quality of the recording - lovely sound but missing a bit of the bite this recording has loads of.
3. Guns 'n Roses - Appetite for Destruction: just not enough edge. Turning it up to try test the waters and the mid-bass bloom started to take over.
4. Vivaldi - The Four Seasons - Mariko Sen Ju - beautiful violin, very good ambient. Soundstage was about as good as I've heard the 650's (which are quite intimate to begin with) once the orchestra kicks in. Not the 650's favourite genre (at least the full-on orchestral passages) but good timbre on the strings and a nice warmth
5. Yello - One Second - a little too polite once again - needs a bit more bite and edge.

 
How does it compare to the modded Crack? It doesn't really. From reading above you'll hopefully get the impression it was clean, smooth, warm, and oh-so-polite, but lacking a bit in detail and attack. In that way it is very much like the 650 itself. It sounds almost more tubey than the Crack with some warm Mullards. If I heard this from my Crack I would be happy for some music, but definitely rolling in brighter tubes for anything rockier, or faster, harder music. The Crack just seemed to swing the sharper transients better, whereas the Gustard smoothed them down, Kinda like the Appalachian mountains versus the Rockies - do you want to relax and enjoy the scenery or jump out of a helicopter and ski for your life.
 
With the Crack you have options to tweak, not so much the Gustard. You can roll op-amps, but I doubt with the same range of effect. The magic the Gustard brought to my LCD's just didn't rub off on the 650's. It's good, but not Crack-good.
 
I think this rambling has just confirmed something that's becoming a truism: for the 650's get an OTL tube amp with a high voltage swing (Crack, Ember, Woo, etc). For the planar world get something with large current flow like the Gustard, Cavelli, Lyr, Audio GD amps.
 
If you have to choose one you need to ask yourself: do I want only the 650's, DT880 premiums and other high-impedance cans (get OTL) or do I want a range of cans including lower-impedance cans, in which case the Gustard is great bang-for-the-buck.
 
Hope that helps, even if it's maybe not what you wanted to hear.

Thanks for this post, since I have Lyr2 and BH Crack I can pass on the H-10 for now and get another headphone vs getting another amp.

 

[DDDamian]

 
Thanks for this post, since I have Lyr2 and BH Crack I can pass on the H-10 for now and get another headphone vs getting another amp.

Heh - just trying to save you money mate
 
Still wrapping my head around the UD-501 - I can't directly compare to your UD-301, only give some generalities. But yeah, the Gustard isn't likely to add to what you have now for the 650's or others - you've got it covered with those two.

 

[DavidA]

  Heh - just trying to save you money mate
 
Still wrapping my head around the UD-501 - I can't directly compare to your UD-301, only give some generalities. But yeah, the Gustard isn't likely to add to what you have now for the 650's or others - you've got it covered with those two.

My wallet thanks you

 
Do the filters on the UD-501 have a large effect on the sound?  I was talking with my friend in Japan and he said that if you don't use any of the filters the UD-501 and UD-301 sound the same.  Also the built in headphone amps sound exactly the same.
 
Have a great weekend everyone

 

[DDDamian]

  My wallet thanks you

 
Do the filters on the UD-501 have a large effect on the sound?  I was talking with my friend in Japan and he said that if you don't use any of the filters the UD-501 and UD-301 sound the same.  Also the built in headphone amps sound exactly the same.
 
Have a great weekend everyone

I haven't even got that far with it lol. Running the "slow" roll-off for PCM and the default FIR-2 for DSD. With the 650's they seem to be a bit better with no roll-off at the top though. Will play when I get a chance, but I don't think on their own they are worthy of an upgrade. I haven't even tried the built-in amp (have better ones at hand lol). Will update once I've played but off to bed and a full day tmo.
 
Have a great weekend all and enjoy what you've got - it's the music after all! 

 

[kman1211]

Excuse me, but does Sennheiser admit that the new 650s sound different from the old 650s?

I talked to a Sennheiser rep about a year ago and he said that they changed both of them years ago. Black driver HD 600/650's are quite rare nowadays. And he did say they sound different than the older pairs.

 

[upstateguy]

Quote:

 

Excuse me, but does Sennheiser admit that the new 650s sound different from the old 650s?

I talked to a Sennheiser rep about a year ago and he said that they changed both of them years ago. Black driver HD 600/650's are quite rare nowadays. And he did say they sound different than the older pairs.

 
and I know a guy who knows a guy.......

 

 

[upstateguy]

   

   
Audeze is the worst example you could possibly bring up.  Audeze headphones have been a work in progress since their inception.  I feel bad for the people (read Audeze beta testers) who got stuck with models that lost their value because of the all too frequent model changes.  Sennheiser, OTOH, is a stable company and does not do this.  They may have changed various parts venders but they have not changed the way their HD650 sounds. 
 

Yep - anyone buying planars over the last few years has been a test-subject for sure. It's an evolving outlier compared to dynamics. And Sennheiser has been in the game forever. All the more reason to trust your ears and demo where possible. At least the traits of the 650's are so well-known and documented, and the process so refined in making them, that it's a sure bet. Especially at current prices. To beat a dead horse: amping is so important to high-impedance cans and planars alike. They are not designed for iPods.