habrys
New Head-Fier
- Joined
- Oct 14, 2009
- Posts
- 9
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- 0
I'm new here and very new to the high-end headphones business, so be gentle with me please...
I always preferred listening through speakers, felling the deep and strong bass from a good subwoofer, etc. I was using headphones only when there is no other way. Like PX-100 for portable listening. These are really exceptional for such small plastic thing. Really. I bought already second pair (the first one broken).
But... after many complaints of my wife, who couldn't sleep properly with "bullets and helicopters flying around her head and the whole building shaking from explosions", while I was watching movies (not very loud, mind you, she's quite sensitive), I decided to buy some good headphones. For these late night hours. I already was a fan of Sennheisers, so after some reading I finally decided, that HD-650 would be ideal for me. I don't like very exposed highs and love deep bass, so I figured, that the "dark sound" of HD650 everybody is talking about would be ideal for me.
At first I was very unimpressed because of lack of proper bass. Details were exceptional, highs non-fatiguing, voices beautiful, but nearly no bass at all. But this was to be expected, right? (I said to myself trembling
) I've read many threads about 200-300 hours of burn-in required to open up these cans, especially in bass area. Anyway, I put slightly above 100 hours to them and I'm in love already. These cans are exactly what I was looking for. The bass I missed is there now, strong and fast, flexing its muscles! And it's possible it gets even better after these 300 hours, right?
Ok, after this longish intro (sorry!) up to my questions. I've read many threads about headphone amps (a few weeks ago I even didn't know such things exist) and am in serious doubt now "is the headphone output of my receiver really enough?". I couldn't find much information about my receiver regarding headphone output. I like the Pioneer very much when it comes to listening through speakers. Both in surround modes (movies) and 2.1 mode for music. When it comes to listening of the same material through my new HD-650 it's... complicated. Let me explain.
Some music albums sound incredibly good. I never suspected such level of detail, openness, sweetness of vocals, quickness of bass is even possible. That's completely new experience for me. Sometimes I miss the physical impact of my subwoofer, but that's all. Every other aspect is superb comparing to the speakers. And these speakers are by no means low end (Infinity Classia set). This is listening to albums like Pink Floyd "The Wall", "The Final Cut", Marilyn Manson "The High End Low", Riverside, Closterkeller.
But... to my terror I discovered, that some albums I listened and loved since years sound terrible on HD650. Pearl Jam "Ten", everything of Metallica and some others. Which was not the case through speakers. Now... is it Sennheisers revealing weaknesses of mix/recording? Or do I need better equipment (dedicated amp) to drive my cans? This is a question...
There is very little information about headphone output in the Pioneers users guide. Just that is exists, speakers will be switched off when headphones plugged in and which functions/modes cannot be used when headphones plugged in. I couldn't even find the impedance. Neither in google. I found somewhere a post of a user of Pioneer SC-LX81 stating, that HD650 sound fantastic with its stock headphone out. And answer of someone using dedicated headphone amp, that it's interesting and he needs to investigate it further. Nothing more.
And here... well it seems there are many believing, that you cannot properly drive HD650 without dedicated headphone amp. Period. But I also found posts stating, that it's perfectly good to use built in headphone outputs and it actually sounds better (no colouring, less components in the signal way etc.) Sometimes it's even better to use CDs headphone out directly (Marantz CD-5001 was discussed if I remember correctly).
I'm torn.... very much.
When it comes to movies with 5.1 DD or DTS track, which I also watch heavily and hoped to use Sennheisers for this too... most of them sound fantastic downmixed by the Pioneer to stereo. Fantastic space, new details unheard before, even bass is tight, fast and very convincing (for headphones that is, nothing beats a good sub, especially for movies).
But again... I have also couple of concerts in 5.1 DD, DTS or even DTS 96/24. These sound terrible. All of them. Very little bass, unnatural vocals... I don't know, something is missing. The first example would be Within Temptation "Black Symphony" in DTS 96/24. But it could be fault of the source material of course. I remember, that I had to pump up loudness of my sub while I watched this one using speakers.
Sadly I don't have any easy possibility to get an headphone amp to try things out myself, hence my post.
One more thing. Assuming I'll buy (or get for testing) a dedicated headphone amp... The Pioneer receiver has analog preamp outputs for all channels (left, right, center, sub etc.). For now I use only sub output for the sub obviously. Would it be all right to use the left/right outputs to drive the headphone amp and let the receiver downmix multichannel tracks to stereo? Another option would be using digital output (optical or coaxial SPDIF - there are both available) to drive dedicated DAC with headphone amp, but I wouldn't go this way. I'd prefer leaving decoding of multichannel DD and DTS tracks to the Pioneer. It is its speciality after all.
I should probably mention, that my main music source is a laptop with a collection of loseless tracks (FLAC mainly) and HDMI output, so I don't have reasonable possibility to drive a headphone amp directly from the source.
So what do you think? Is it going to be these way from now? Half of my music collection turns out to be crap recorded/mixed and cannot be listened to through my new Sennheisers without pain in the ears? Are these cans really so cruel?
I always preferred listening through speakers, felling the deep and strong bass from a good subwoofer, etc. I was using headphones only when there is no other way. Like PX-100 for portable listening. These are really exceptional for such small plastic thing. Really. I bought already second pair (the first one broken).
But... after many complaints of my wife, who couldn't sleep properly with "bullets and helicopters flying around her head and the whole building shaking from explosions", while I was watching movies (not very loud, mind you, she's quite sensitive), I decided to buy some good headphones. For these late night hours. I already was a fan of Sennheisers, so after some reading I finally decided, that HD-650 would be ideal for me. I don't like very exposed highs and love deep bass, so I figured, that the "dark sound" of HD650 everybody is talking about would be ideal for me.
At first I was very unimpressed because of lack of proper bass. Details were exceptional, highs non-fatiguing, voices beautiful, but nearly no bass at all. But this was to be expected, right? (I said to myself trembling
Ok, after this longish intro (sorry!) up to my questions. I've read many threads about headphone amps (a few weeks ago I even didn't know such things exist) and am in serious doubt now "is the headphone output of my receiver really enough?". I couldn't find much information about my receiver regarding headphone output. I like the Pioneer very much when it comes to listening through speakers. Both in surround modes (movies) and 2.1 mode for music. When it comes to listening of the same material through my new HD-650 it's... complicated. Let me explain.
Some music albums sound incredibly good. I never suspected such level of detail, openness, sweetness of vocals, quickness of bass is even possible. That's completely new experience for me. Sometimes I miss the physical impact of my subwoofer, but that's all. Every other aspect is superb comparing to the speakers. And these speakers are by no means low end (Infinity Classia set). This is listening to albums like Pink Floyd "The Wall", "The Final Cut", Marilyn Manson "The High End Low", Riverside, Closterkeller.
But... to my terror I discovered, that some albums I listened and loved since years sound terrible on HD650. Pearl Jam "Ten", everything of Metallica and some others. Which was not the case through speakers. Now... is it Sennheisers revealing weaknesses of mix/recording? Or do I need better equipment (dedicated amp) to drive my cans? This is a question...
There is very little information about headphone output in the Pioneers users guide. Just that is exists, speakers will be switched off when headphones plugged in and which functions/modes cannot be used when headphones plugged in. I couldn't even find the impedance. Neither in google. I found somewhere a post of a user of Pioneer SC-LX81 stating, that HD650 sound fantastic with its stock headphone out. And answer of someone using dedicated headphone amp, that it's interesting and he needs to investigate it further. Nothing more.
And here... well it seems there are many believing, that you cannot properly drive HD650 without dedicated headphone amp. Period. But I also found posts stating, that it's perfectly good to use built in headphone outputs and it actually sounds better (no colouring, less components in the signal way etc.) Sometimes it's even better to use CDs headphone out directly (Marantz CD-5001 was discussed if I remember correctly).
I'm torn.... very much.
When it comes to movies with 5.1 DD or DTS track, which I also watch heavily and hoped to use Sennheisers for this too... most of them sound fantastic downmixed by the Pioneer to stereo. Fantastic space, new details unheard before, even bass is tight, fast and very convincing (for headphones that is, nothing beats a good sub, especially for movies).
But again... I have also couple of concerts in 5.1 DD, DTS or even DTS 96/24. These sound terrible. All of them. Very little bass, unnatural vocals... I don't know, something is missing. The first example would be Within Temptation "Black Symphony" in DTS 96/24. But it could be fault of the source material of course. I remember, that I had to pump up loudness of my sub while I watched this one using speakers.
Sadly I don't have any easy possibility to get an headphone amp to try things out myself, hence my post.
One more thing. Assuming I'll buy (or get for testing) a dedicated headphone amp... The Pioneer receiver has analog preamp outputs for all channels (left, right, center, sub etc.). For now I use only sub output for the sub obviously. Would it be all right to use the left/right outputs to drive the headphone amp and let the receiver downmix multichannel tracks to stereo? Another option would be using digital output (optical or coaxial SPDIF - there are both available) to drive dedicated DAC with headphone amp, but I wouldn't go this way. I'd prefer leaving decoding of multichannel DD and DTS tracks to the Pioneer. It is its speciality after all.
I should probably mention, that my main music source is a laptop with a collection of loseless tracks (FLAC mainly) and HDMI output, so I don't have reasonable possibility to drive a headphone amp directly from the source.
So what do you think? Is it going to be these way from now? Half of my music collection turns out to be crap recorded/mixed and cannot be listened to through my new Sennheisers without pain in the ears? Are these cans really so cruel?