[sxr71]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brewmaster /img/forum/go_quote.gif Come on let's keep this in the realm or reality. There is no way these would cost $20 to make unless Sennheiser was selling an obscene volume of these. These are not a commodity item that is mass produced in quantities that could offset the non material costs. Even on commodity items the prices don't drop until the R&D, capital, and tooling costs can be offset. There is far more than the material costs to produce these. With the number of components in these phones there must be a huge investment in tooling. Investment in R&D Marketing and other sales and administrative costs. I'm sure there is a huge mark up on them, but I'm also sure Sennheiser isn't making money on them yet.

I was referring to Grado. You know some of them cost about that much to make.

With these I'm sure they are quite a bit above $20 especially that parts were designed for it and 2 years of research were carried out for it. I understand these things cost money to design and make but really this pricing is a Grado-inspired positioning move.

 

[subtle]

Quote:

Originally Posted by sxr71 /img/forum/go_quote.gif How do you justify all the margin you hoped to preserve for dealers who still demonstrate products to customers now going to Amazon where a computer basically prints out your order in a warehouse somewhere and it gets put on the next UPS truck? I really want to know.

Easy. Just like many of the Head-Fi sponsors, that also have it for the same price, these companies offer a 30 day satisfaction guarantee. If for some reason one A) doesn't like it or B) didn't feel it was worth the asking price one can simply return it. If the consumer ends up returning the headphone the dealer has to eat the value lost when they sell it as a B-stock item. Hence the margin.

 

[sxr71]

Quote:

Originally Posted by subtle /img/forum/go_quote.gif Easy. Just like many of the Head-Fi sponsors, that also have it for the same price, these companies offer a 30 day satisfaction guarantee. If for some reason one A) doesn't like it or B) didn't feel it was worth the asking price one can simply return it. If the consumer ends up returning the headphone the dealer has to eat the value lost when they sell it as a B-stock item. Hence the margin.

That applies to retail dealers as well. Why should the impersonal web pages of an internet store have the same margin? Also if the basic premise here is that the price increase is to preserve the personal customer-dealer relationshipand personal demonstration, how can a webpage and maybe a person at the other end of a phone line at best, allow for that?

 

[Il Mostro]

Quote:

Originally Posted by GuyDebord /img/forum/go_quote.gif please enlighten us! or is your post pure unfounded bs?

I can see that you an astute business owner. Now, go get your shine box. Ma che stronzo!

 

[Mark Spitz]

Quote:

Originally Posted by joomongj /img/forum/go_quote.gif +1 Proof? Since w/o it, which in fact I see none of, your comments look nothing more than a classic example of, on the whole, grossly-overstated pompous rambling.

Is this like the town in "Roxanne" where they haven't had any irony since '83? It is a form letter, gentlemen, an almost universally accepted gimmick to produce parody. Sorry that basic comprehension of facetious language was too demanding an expectation. Did you notice the signature? Try flipping the word order

 

[joomongj]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark Spitz /img/forum/go_quote.gif Is this like the town in "Roxanne" where they haven't had any irony since '83? It is a form letter, gentlemen, an almost universally accepted gimmick to produce parody. Sorry that basic comprehension of facetious language was too demanding an expectation. Did you notice the signature? Try flipping the word order

Lmao ~.~. Ohz and almost forgot, did men set foot on the moon? I always believed it but lately I'm having doubts. Thx Mark.

 

[haloxt]

Quote:

Originally Posted by sxr71 /img/forum/go_quote.gif How do you justify all the margin you hoped to preserve for dealers who still demonstrate products to customers now going to Amazon where a computer basically prints out your order in a warehouse somewhere and it gets put on the next UPS truck? I really want to know.

Are you actually suggesting Sennheiser either DROP AMAZON or charge Amazon more? I have a better idea, why not charge Amazon $200 EXTRA per headphone and tell them they can only sell at $1600? This will punish them for running their business like a warehouse and at the same time encourage people to purchase from the stores doing all the real work instead of at some warehouse with a computer. It'll be a riot when Amazon sues Sennheiser out of existence too.

 

[rds]

Quote:

Originally Posted by PhilS /img/forum/go_quote.gif People "think" lots of things. Unfortunately, a lot of things that people "think" get passed along on the internet as if there is some factual basis for what they "think."

Thank you for that critique of the internet.

It's amazing how personally insulting people here can be when someone offers criticism of a piece of equipment they own. It's pretty sad when defending one's audiophile gear comes before treating people decently.

 

[Il Mostro]

Quote:

Originally Posted by rds /img/forum/go_quote.gif Thank you for that critique of the internet. It's amazing how personally insulting people here can be when someone offers criticism of a piece of equipment they own. It's pretty sad when defending one's audiophile gear comes before treating people decently.

Nah, I read it as a blanket condemnation of ignorance, stupidity and lemming behavior -- irrespective of ownership of a particular HP. And, it hit the fricking bullseye.

 

[ford2]

Quote:

Originally Posted by aimlink /img/forum/go_quote.gif There's a lot more to cost than just cost for materials and assembly. There's also the issue of intellectual effort expended in coming up with the design, brand value etc. In the end, it's the consumer that sets the price. If the consumer thinks it's worthless, then even if it literally costs $1400 to manufacture, then it's worthless to the consumer. OTOH, it may cost a little to manufacture, but if there's a lot of demand for it and the consumer is willing to pay a lot to get it, then the price goes up. The HD800 is clearly worth the price it's being sold at since Sennheiser is so far, quite happy selling it at that price.

They will continue to sell at that price for as long as the market dictates.

If I owned Senn I would be very happy indeed.

As to "worth the price" that is another story.

 

[rds]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Il Mostro /img/forum/go_quote.gif Nah, I read it as a blanket condemnation of ignorance, stupidity and lemming behavior -- irrespective of ownership of a particular HP. And, it hit the fricking bullseye.

First of it's not just Phils. There have much more insulting and offensive things said in this thread.

So you're saying he's condemning my ignorance, stupidity and displaying of lemming behaviour? Because the post was clearly directed at me and a particular statement I made.

In response to his "critique" of the internet, I have to say that is what we should expect. Anyone can voice and opinion on any topic and so there will be mostly noise. That's why placing like wikipedia exists. That's why scientific journals exist.
What I find even more prevalent and despicable is the misanthropy, anger, and aggression that often pervades internet forums.

 

[vai-777]

Quote:

Originally Posted by sxr71 /img/forum/go_quote.gif Wow. Well said. This is all about keeping up appearances. I have to thank all those who bought those stupid $1000+ Grados. They are the kings of offering the most cheaply made, garage designed and manufactured products at the most ridiculous prices to make some kind of statement. They probably laugh at their customers. Products made in China are made with much better quality control than those. I had to say it. While all you guys keep falling for the same old Audiophile crap I truly hope modern technology and awareness will put an end to this stupid game. I think the new generation of people are getting wise to all the tricks. $200 headphone cable? Burn-in? I've been through about $20,000 in audio products and I've come to realize that most of it is about some guy trying to see how far he can push the envelope with pricing and keep the sheep coming. These are not 3 times better than the HD600. Give me a break if you want to tell me they came up with some revelation that their years in the headphone business did not help them achieve. It's all in incremental upgrade, not some new transducer technology that changes the earth. So they figured out how to reduce some resonances - big deal. It's a damn wire rolled up and attached to a piece of plastic.

The 600? are you serious....lol The 800 is in another league. The difference between the 600 and 800 is the difference between the Koss UR 20 and the HD600....Yes the difference is that extreme....

 

[InFn-0]

So far the only complain i have about the HD800 is that probably (assuming) all other major manufacturers will price their upcoming flagship models above $1000. Before the sense of superiority you would get from a $350 HD650 or $270 K701 will now set you back above a grand. Moreover, most headphones which were previously considered reference quality which were under $500 are now a tier below the best available.

I understand that HD800 is not the first headphone to be priced above a grand, but it sure makes me sad that i wont be able to afford/justify most flagship models by great manufacturers in the future.

sniff

 

[oktapod]

FWIW, and I won't name names to protect the supplier in question, but I've been offered HD800s at just under 15% discount. So it is possible.

It actually poses me a dilemma as I had been swaying back to Stax, but now I could arguably buy the HD800 and sell it on in six months without losing much at all if it doesn't work out. Which is *probably* the best thing I can do - treat it as an extended audition...

 

[Georgl]

Sennheiser has to make profit but Sennheiser is not driven by Shareholder-value, I'm sure the investment into the HD800 was a risky move and not their most profitable headphone (in %) - they propably sell some of their 100$-headphones 50 times as well, there's no way the HD800 could catch up it's R&D-efforts in comparison. Just like the Maybach and Rolls-Royce fulfill important roles (image, testing new technologies) for their companies (Mercedes/BMW) but even as the most expensive products in their line-up they're not the most profitable.
I don't think the HD800 was designed to make as much profit as possible (it would be a wooden HD650 with selected drivers), just like the Orpheus but as a reference product to test technologies and improve the image of the brand.

@sxr71
The HD600 comes from Ireland and is manufactured with different standards than the HD800 or their professional microphones. They outsourced their mechanical production and moved headphone-assembly to Ireland in the early 90s - that's when quality went down, even my HE60 (just like my HD580) had mechanical weaknesses - the suppliers for mechanical parts seemed to be the same? The lower-end Sennheiser aren't even developed by Sennheiser anymore and even the HD595 is made in China (although with drivers from Ireland if I understood the Sennheiser-people correctly).
It's difficult to say if the HD650 is still "real Sennheiser".