[jtwn]

Whats this i hear? Somebody wants to hear the highs and is getting annoyed with the treble rolloff?

Sounds like you need a new pair of phones, as said, the senns are naturally dark sounding phones and what you want it is a different pair of phones.

I really like the sony sound, seems to give a more accurate representation in the highs then the senns.

 

[aerius]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nak Man Aerius, any links or pics on this Cat cable ? Hope no braiding necessary. Do you think both wires superior to the stock cables ? Very interested to build diy one with recent plugs availability. Thanks much.

Link to picture & brief description.
No braiding is needed, but I did have to untwist & re-twist the last couple inches on both ends to get the wires to pair up the way I wanted. Cat6 AFAIK is solid not stranded, so let's just say it redefines the word "stiff" and once it's bent a certain way it'll stay bent, which can be be most inconvenient. Soundwise it's better than the stock cable, sound is similar to the PS-1 Pro cable but without the weaknesses.

 

[e_dawg]

Quote:

Originally Posted by tingj I suppose a new head amp is probably in the works. There does not seem to be a consensus on a *reasonably priced* amp that matches well with the Senns. I gather I should be looking for an amp with LOW output impedance??? Or do I have it backwards?

Low output impedance is usually desirable in an amp, but you shouldn't limit your search to amps that have < 20 ohms output impedance, for example. Low output impedance is especially important when you have low output impedance phones like Grados at 32 ohms.

Quote:

Any opinions of the cheapest offerings from Antique Sound Labs?? Would a CMoy op amp based design be an improvement over the OBH-11?

I had the ASL MG Head DT/OTL Mk3. Disappointing. Wouldn't recommend it unless you don't mind giving up articulate bass for a silky midrange. That's the tradeoff with the ASL amps. Even maxed out CMoy designs are only capable of so much; IMO, even the best CMoy based amps are not worthy of the HD650. You want a Gilmore Lite, PPA w/8610 op-amps, Ray Samuels HR-2, etc.

 

[Nak Man]

Quote:

Originally Posted by aerius No braiding is needed, but I did have to untwist & re-twist the last couple inches on both ends to get the wires to pair up the way I wanted. Cat6 AFAIK is solid not stranded, so let's just say it redefines the word "stiff" and once it's bent a certain way it'll stay bent, which can be be most inconvenient. Soundwise it's better than the stock cable, sound is similar to the PS-1 Pro cable but without the weaknesses.

Thanks Aerius ... will give it a try soon ! Did you notice any interference effect using unshielded wires ?

 

[Born2bwire]

Quote:

Originally Posted by e_dawg I had the ASL MG Head DT/OTL Mk3. Disappointing. Wouldn't recommend it unless you don't mind giving up articulate bass for a silky midrange. That's the tradeoff with the ASL amps. Even maxed out CMoy designs are only capable of so much; IMO, even the best CMoy based amps are not worthy of the HD650. You want a Gilmore Lite, PPA w/8610 op-amps, Ray Samuels HR-2, etc.

I think that the MG Head is an excellent match for the Senns. Changing the tubes out is usually able to finetune the sound signature to what you want. The reason why I would recommend against getting is that you seem unsure of whether or not you want to keep the HD-650's and the MG Head is a poor match with low impedence cans like the Grados. I would try to hedge your bets and go with a more all around amp.

 

[aerius]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nak Man Thanks Aerius ... will give it a try soon ! Did you notice any interference effect using unshielded wires ?

Not that I noticed. I do live in an area free from interference, no powerlines, radio towers, and my room is pretty well shielded thanks to lots of concrete & steel in the walls. My equipment doesn't seem to give off evil rays or anything either so everything's good. As usual, results may vary.

 

[e_dawg]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Born2bwire I think that the MG Head is an excellent match for the Senns. Changing the tubes out is usually able to finetune the sound signature to what you want.

Indeed, tuberolling can make a difference, but the one thing it still does not get rid of completely is the sluggish, inarticulate bass. Admittedly, I have only tried the Sylvania JHS 5751WA and the JJ/Tesla EL84 against the stock JJ/Tesla ECC83S and Sovtek 6BQ5, but my comments on the MG Head are not uncommon -- others have reviewed the MG Head and have found it a little sluggish in the bass. This is usually a function of an inadequately regulated power supply -- something tuberolling cannot fix.

 

[Asterix]

I own the Senn 650's, I used to own the 580's, and before that the 560's or 565's... to be honest I remember thinking the 560's or 565's (not sure which) were actually *better* than the 580's... because they weren't harsh like the 580's. As for the 650's, they are in a different league altogether. I've tried the 650's with a few amps and sources and compared them with the 580's and also some Beyer DT770's I just got. I have also used the 650 with the stock cable and then upgraded to the Zu cable. This is what I think: The 580's are great and have a well-balanced sound. The 650's are more detailed than the 580's, smoother, lusher, but while the bass is better they seem to also have a certain kind of treble emphasis. I don't know if the Zu makes this 'worse' but the Zu definately helped to warm the sound, magnify the bass, and make the sound more detailed and feel more upfront. It didn't really make it brighter. The 650 is IMO fairly bright and gives the overall impression of being brighter than the 580. This is my only gripe about them, although they are my favorite headphones. I prefer my sound to be on the darker side. I also own the MG Head and I really love this amp despite its flaws (muddy bass) ...with the best tubes I could find/afford, of course. And it drives the Senns perfectly in OTL mode. I don't know about Creek head amps but I had a Creek amp that sounded okay but didn't have much bass and I wasn't crazy about it. The 650's seem to be more sensitive to the quality of amp you use than other headphones. I absolutely cannot use them with my cmoy for example (too noisy.) So I would say get a new amp and definately upgrade the cable on your 650's, it made a huge difference for me with the Zu. However, the 650's should still sound good without a cable upgrade. I just found the Zu added a lot of bass, warmth, and some detail. When choosing an amp, I would personally recommend tubes, but if you prefer solid state that is up to you. They are, of course, a little more expensive, unless you go with something like the MG Head /w upgraded tubes (about $500.) I don't think you will be displeased with the MG Head though, it is a really nice amp that matches well with the Senns. That's my opinion, but IMO the MG Head is better suited for jazz and classical (which I mainly listen to.) It sounds good with any acoustic instruments because of it's natural sound quality.

 

[tingj]

Okay. What exactly is a PPA?? There are some very pretty PPAs on the FS forum for under 3 bills. I am correct in thinking these are all homemade and homedesigned amps?

Would these be a good match for the HD650s? What's the switch on the back for?

(And who exactly is Mr. X?)

This just gets stranger and stranger.

Jess

 

[3lusiv3]

It's a secret. You have to go through the initiation to get that info

 

[Andrea]

Quote:

Originally Posted by tingj Thank you everyone who replied to my post. You are a bizarre (but fun) group of people. Jess

Beware, bizarrerie will be slowly, imperceptibly growing on you.

 

[3lusiv3]

In answer to the question about PPA and Mr X...

Info on PPA:
http://elvencraft.com/ppa/

Mr X is one of the builders listed on the bottom of that page.

PPA's are home made, but some amp builders (small businesses I guess) make very high quality ones.

 

[tortie]

Quote:

Originally Posted by tingj Let me try this -- what is the best under-$500 head amp for the HD 650s?

How about this one?

Emmeline XP-7 for $495

 

[cpw]

Quote:

Originally Posted by tortie How about this one? Emmeline XP-7 for $495

Good point. I have never commented on this amp before bcause I'd never heard one until recently.
I was very hard pressed to hear a difference between that amp and my
HR-2 which I feel is an awesome match w/ the HD-650. And it's right in your sweetspot on the budget side.
CPW

 

[markl]

Quote:

I am disappointed enough to contemplate returning them. I have run them 24 hrs/day for 2 weeks to break 'em in but still can't seem to warm up to their sound. The problem? They are too soft (dark) in the high end and bloated in the bass. They lack "air" and "transparency". I would describe their sound as "euphonic". Easy to listen to, yes, but uninvolving. I expected more from the flagship Sennheisers. My last headphones were HD560s and I used them for 15 years and thought they were great.

tingj, you have just described the basic sound of the Senns. I have not read this entire thread, but I imagine you were given two pieces of advice by the Senn fans:

1. You need a better amp to fully appreciate the Senns

2. You need a $150 aftermarket headphone cable to appreciate the Senns.

As for #1, they may have a point; while I've *never heard it*, I have *read* (time and again it seems) that the OBH-11 is a somewhat lack-luster headamp. A source like your Meridian surely deserves a better amp than the Creek. That said, no new amp is going to radically alter the Senns basic behavior and magically transform them into something they are not. Some people just don't like the basic Senn sound, and there should be no shame in that, although you should be aware that once you go on record and state that blasphemy around here, you are required to wear a scarlet letter "S" when you walk the streets of Head-Fi.

But, that's why we have different headphones to choose from, it's not a one-size-fits-all item.

As for #2, if I had a nickel for every time I've typed something similar to this, I'd be a wealthy man. Having owned Senns and tried aftermarket replacement cables for them, as well as knowing how dozens and dozens of different interconnect upgrade cables sound on a variety of gear, and guage how they alter the sound, I can say that IMO, these cables are strictly for people who ALREADY LOVE the basic Senn sound. Again, they won't magically transform them into a different headphone, just refine what is already there in the same subtle ways that all cable upgrades affect your system. If you don't like the basic Senn sound, you are throwing good money after bad by investing in an expensive aftermarket cable you've been convinced by board Members will suddenly make them sound "right" to you. They won't.

Good luck!