[tingj]

I just got these a couple of weeks ago, influenced in part by reviews on this site.

I am disappointed enough to contemplate returning them. I have run them 24 hrs/day for 2 weeks to break 'em in but still can't seem to warm up to their sound.

The problem? They are too soft (dark) in the high end and bloated in the bass. They lack "air" and "transparency". I would describe their sound as "euphonic". Easy to listen to, yes, but uninvolving. I expected more from the flagship Sennheisers. My last headphones were HD560s and I used them for 15 years and thought they were great.

Incidentally, I run them with a Meridian 508.24 CD player and Creek OBH-11 headphone amp. I have Meridian DSP-5000 and KEF 105/3S speakers as references -- and both of these speakers are rather soft in the treble themselves, so it isn't a matter of me being used to bright speakers.

What's wrong here? Can I expect the treble to brighten with further break-in? Please don't tell me I need $300 aftermarket headphone cables or a $1000 headphone amp because that just ain't happening.

Anyone in NYC want to trade headphones?

-JT

 

[Tim D]

I've never liked the Creek OBH-11. It was one of my earliest amps with new toy feeling and all and I disliked it even without having heard a vast majority of amps I've heard now. It is 'ok' with Grado's, and worse with Senns.

 

[Kirosia]

Let it burn-in, and perhaps ditch the creek. Many members consider even the current $200 + up amps to top it nowadays. The gilmore lite (SS) is only $300 and the sr-71 is only $400. There's also the eddie current models, maxed out PPA, singlepower, etc. that are often recommended for the 650. You can get a good aftermarket cabe for ca. $200 depending on length. (I'd go for the amp upgrade first) I found the stock HD650 to be good, and even listenable running from sub-par source.

 

[Oink1]

Also read that the Creek isn't the best with the Senn's - Perhaps the auditioning of a new amp is in order before you pack up the 650's...

 

[Scrith]

It sounds like you are describing the infamous Sennheiser Veil. Aftermarket cables (Zu or Silver Dragon) would help a bit (you might consider buying one used, of course). Another headphone (CD3000, Grado?) will sound different, but you'll be trading one thing for another. Obviously the major upper-tier headphones (R10, Qualia, HE90, L3000) are going to sound better. But you know all this...it's like speakers, I suppose. For $400 the Sennheisers are a pretty good deal, in my opinion.

 

[tiberian]

you need a new amp.

 

[GoRedwings19]

I find the 650 a improvement over the hd600. I don't find them as "veiled". Of course I use the Zu cable. Even stock form they quite good. I was a bit nervous about getting the hd650's but I think they are better than most headphones. I can understand why so many people like the headphones. I can also understand why so many people hate it as well. The Zu cable really helps the hd650. With the cable it is similar sounding to the RS-1's I use as reference headphones to benchmark other headphones.

 

[Sovkiller]

Those Senns are not for you period.....go to another house sound, with a more forward presentation, Grado or Sony (CD3k) recomended for a change, AT's could be another option.....the same happen to me, after a close comparison, there is no way I can turn back....

 

[Bill Ward]

If you don't like them, send them back.

I had a similar reaction to the HD650. Terrific headphones, admirable achievement, state-of-Sennheiser-art, and Head-Fi icon though they be, I wasn't impressed. They weren't for me and maybe they're not for you. No big deal. You might like to check out the Beyer DT880 or look at some of the AKGs. There's no lack of good headphones.

Good luck,

BW

 

[e_dawg]

I wouldn't exactly call the HD650 soft (dark) in the high end and bloated in the bass, but it seems you may want a brighter sounding phone such as the CD3000, Beyer DT931, Grado SR325 (silver edition), or even the Senn HD600, which is a little brighter than the HD650 (i.e., you like everything about the HD650 but want it a little brighter). A new amp won't make the HD650 sound any brighter.

 

[Tim D]

A better amp is going to let the HD650's perform period. The Creek is not cutting it especially with your associated gear. Put it this way, the Creek to my ears sounded worse than an original Headroom Little (which in time has itself been vastly improved upon), sounded worse than CHA47 or buffered Cmoy's which are some of the earlier DIY inspired amps that are still behind Meta42's much less Pimeta's, Headsave amps, or PPA's or any gilmore's.

The Creek OBH-11 is like a dedicated version of a receiver jack (from a not so great receiver). And yes assuming the Creek-OBH11 doesn't have the greatest damping factor or low Z output (which it sure doesn't sound like it to me), it will actually make the bass extra flabby and trebles more muted per impedance vs freq response curves as heard (or measured on Jan's site).

As you can see I'm a great fan of the Creek OBH-11.

 

[Nak Man]

Quote:

Originally Posted by tingj My last headphones were HD560s and I used them for 15 years and thought they were great.

Very strange indeed, considering you're used to Senn's sound ! I use 104/2 and think their sound sigs to be quite similar, i.e. 'neutral' more toward dark, but pleasing. Imo 650's brightness is about right, comparable to good full sized speakers - but their airiness and HF details bettered most speakers.

I was about to suggest 650's little brother, 595, which have leaner bass - thus shifting the tonal balance slightly - but that would be a bigger departure from old KEF sound. In any case, I suggest you try a second pair, or move to 'lighter' 580/595/600. I don't have 560 to say which sound closer to your last phones. To me those senns simply give most speaker-like sound: 580 have a bit elevated HF, 595 as most neutral, and finally 650 give more detail and bass at the same time.

 

[Beagle]

Quote:

Originally Posted by tingj I just got these a couple of weeks ago, influenced in part by reviews on this site. I am disappointed enough to contemplate returning them. I have run them 24 hrs/day for 2 weeks to break 'em in but still can't seem to warm up to their sound. The problem? They are too soft (dark) in the high end and bloated in the bass. They lack "air" and "transparency". I would describe their sound as "euphonic". Easy to listen to, yes, but uninvolving. I expected more from the flagship Sennheisers. My last headphones were HD560s and I used them for 15 years and thought they were great. Incidentally, I run them with a Meridian 508.24 CD player and Creek OBH-11 headphone amp. I have Meridian DSP-5000 and KEF 105/3S speakers as references -- and both of these speakers are rather soft in the treble themselves, so it isn't a matter of me being used to bright speakers. What's wrong here? Can I expect the treble to brighten with further break-in? Please don't tell me I need $300 aftermarket headphone cables or a $1000 headphone amp because that just ain't happening. Anyone in NYC want to trade headphones? -JT

Watch, they're all gonna question yer amplification

 

[tingj]

Lots of great input and quickly too. Much appreciated.

I am intrigued. The consensus seems to be that the Creek OBH-11 is a likely culprit. Actually, I am shocked. How much could a headphone amp influence the frequency balance of a set of headphones? Difficult for me to imagine it would be that dramatic. Think about power amps and speakers. Power amps make only subtle changes in the sound of speakers played at *moderate levels*. Headphones play at much lower sound output levels. I would imagine they would be easy to drive with any halfway decent amp.

I am even more skeptical that headphone cables make a perceptible difference in sound. But I have no desire to start a flame war.

I am open to suggestions. Is there a consensus on an under-$250 amp that would work well with these headphones? Maybe one of the upgraded DIY CMoy amps? Or the tube amps made in mainland China?

 

[hedrick]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nak Man In any case, I suggest you try a second pair, or move to 'lighter' 580/595/600. I don't have 560 to say which sound closer to your last phones. To me those senns simply give most speaker-like sound: 580 have a bit elevated HF, 595 as most neutral, and finally 650 give more detail and bass at the same time.

I have pretty much the same problem with my 580s. There's nothing specific I can put my finger on that's wrong. But they sound sort of flat and uninteresting compared to my K340s. I'd like to like them: they're more comfortable than the K340s. I just don't.

I've thought of trying newer AKGs or perhaps Beyers. But I'm afraid of being disappointed again. (When I got the 580s I didn't realize quite how good the K340 is.)

FYI: I have two setups: Benchmark DAC-1 fed from my PowerMac, and a Total Bithead acting as a DAC, fed from an iBook, with an old Hafler SE 100 acting as the headphone amp.