[rodentmacbeastie]

What I can't seem to really grasp, I mean I have know clue to why this debate is still going on. An electrical engineer who designed the Creek amp has said that this specific amp and the HD650's will not be a good match. Now instead of simply taking this statement as fact and moving on to the next topic, you have manage to turn this into a nearly two month saga of everyone talking and no one listening. I have the HD600's and driving them from my CD player was better than my iPod but still was dissapointing. Knowing that these were serious heaphones with high impedence and high praise I immediatly bought a Woo Audio 3 amp designed to drive high impedance cans and do you know what? The cans sounded completely different. Not more of the same sound, completely different. Now, when I upraded to my Equinox cable, the sound was more of that better and different sound. And then I went hogwild and made some solid silver tribraid interconnects and realized another level of transparency and detail. I still believe that the cans can sound better and better, but due to the law of dimminishing returns I will simply upgrade to a set of HD650's. Since this thread has seemed to attract a few unsatisfied HD650 owners, any good deals on HD650's boys and girls?

I have learned a few things over the years and I will share a couple of them for the rest of you to hack to bits. Here it goes!

-Try everything twice. Chances are you f%$@$d it up the first time.

-A smart man learns from his mistakes. A wise man learns from others' mistakes. An enlightend man learns why they were mistakes.

ps. You guys are worse than a sewing club. lol

 

[Geek]

I don't think my $1,400 headphone amp properly drives the HD650.

The only time I've heard them perform even remotely at their full potential is when they are paired with a fully balanced dual monoblock headphone amplifier.

Incidentally, this three-thousand-dollar plus amp was playing through a meridian 508.24.

I've never heard equipment that sounded that good before. Ever.

Without a good amp the HD650 sounds like mud and fog.

Cheers,
Geek

 

[ayt999]

I only like my HD650 when driven balanced by either my BlockHead or Gilmore Balanced Reference, though I prefer the BlockHead over the Balanced Reference for the HD650. otherwise I don't like the headphone, and this includes driving them in balanced mode directly from the XLR outputs of a benchmark DAC1.

 

[NeilPeart]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ayt999 otherwise I don't like the headphone, and this includes driving them in balanced mode directly from the XLR outputs of a benchmark DAC1.

Awww...

I prefer the HD650/Blockhead to any other dynamic amp/headphone combination - there is absolute synergy between these two, but I'll have to settle for my maligned DAC1-XLR/HD650...

 

[Asterix]

Quote:

Originally Posted by aerius The Senn 650's are probably not for you. I've heard them at a meet and I wasn't too enthused with them either, even when plugged into some pretty powerful amps including a Gilmore and a PPA. I did not notice the bloated bass you mentioned, in fact I felt it had too little bass, though what was there was pretty clean. I did however note the soft high end and the lack of involvement, they are not exciting 'phones, and they will not whack you over the head with details and hi-fi goodness. They are faster & more detailed than the Senn 580/600, and they don't have the occasional harshness in the highs which the 580/600 do, but to me they sound more dead. Cable changes and amps will help, but personally I don't feel it's worth it based on the issues you have with the sound you're getting. It's a lot easier to start off with a headphone which has a sound you like and then tweak it to make it better.

I agree pretty much completely with your opinion of the 650's. I just sold mine and bought 600's instead. I agree they are less detailed but sound more realistic and alive, despite the slight harshness in the highs. I feel my 600's/Cardas have a much more realistic and sweeter sonic signature compared with the 650's which were dull and also grating and unforgiving to my ears. There is a subtle refined magic to these 600's (with Cardas) that the 650's didn't have. Compared to the 650's they are slightly more dark and closed-sounding, also a bit more distant. This gives for an overall more laid-back feeling with the 600's that just feels right.

I had read so many good reviews of the 650's on Head-Fi and I knew how good the 580's/600's were so I thought I couldn't go wrong. I even upgraded to the Zu cable. But nothing helped tame the intolerable sound of the 650's. The answer for me was selling them and 'downgrading' to the 600's.

 

[Andrea]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Asterix I agree pretty much completely with your opinion of the 650's. I just sold mine and bought 600's instead. I agree they are less detailed but sound more realistic and alive, despite the slight harshness in the highs. I feel my 600's/Cardas have a much more realistic and sweeter sonic signature compared with the 650's which were dull and also grating and unforgiving to my ears. There is a subtle refined magic to these 600's (with Cardas) that the 650's didn't have. Compared to the 650's they are slightly more dark and closed-sounding, also a bit more distant. This gives for an overall more laid-back feeling with the 600's that just feels right. I had read so many good reviews of the 650's on Head-Fi and I knew how good the 580's/600's were so I thought I couldn't go wrong. I even upgraded to the Zu cable. But nothing helped tame the intolerable sound of the 650's. The answer for me was selling them and 'downgrading' to the 600's.

Your case is clear evidence of how crucial is the "your mileage may vary" factor, since, objectively speaking, the HD650 is simply superior, technically and musically.

 

[fewtch]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Geek I don't think my $1,400 headphone amp properly drives the HD650. The only time I've heard them perform even remotely at their full potential is when they are paired with a fully balanced dual monoblock headphone amplifier. Incidentally, this three-thousand-dollar plus amp was playing through a meridian 508.24.

Hey, I just plug my HD-580s into the jack labeled "God" and they sound awesome...

Everybody should be playing their Senns in God Mode, it's the only way to go.

Quote:

Originally Posted by tingj Would a CMoy op amp based design be an improvement over the OBH-11?

Yes, a major improvement. I've owned the Creek OBH-11 (non-SE) and can attest to its awfulness. In fact, I have RMAA charts that *objectively* map its awfulness while driving Senns (very high intermod distortion, uneven frequency response (particularly bloated bass), mediocre stereo crosstalk figures, etc). Apologies to anyone who may find it euphonically pleasing, but technically speaking it's a piece of crap.

 

[PeterR]

Just when you thought this disaster of a thread had finally died its deserved death...

 

[plainsong]

Wow, who'd thunk that the HD650 could be so controversial? Like the HD595 threads, the egos really come out to play don't they? Look, you can insult someone for not spending enough on their gear, you can insult their sense of hearing, or what have you, but the fact is that at this level of headphone - there is no "Best." Best would indicate that it reproduces live sound pitch and stage perfect. No peace of gear does that, and the ones that come close... well, it's cheaper to just hire a band and have them play in your living room.

It can't be argued that some excel at it more than others, but in those microsteps between good and awful it all depends on how you hear, and what you prefer to hear. Who's to say that the HD650 is better than the sr325i or ms2i for instance? It depends on preference, and your preference will be echoed in your source of choice.

It's all just different shades of what you prefer. Pick a flavor and be happy. It seems like when someone does this, a few come out of the woodwork with vieled insults. Why? You picked your flavor, now let someone else pick theres.

Certainly the different sound signatures and preferences for or against can be talked about without the huge egos?

Translation: You can pick the hd650 and not be a boring person. You may feel free to use your Senns with moderately priced equipment without shame. You can prefer the hd600 and still be an audiophile. You can prefer Grado and not be a hair-rock idiot.

 

[Andrea]

Plainsong, I think your argument is valid, but -- certainly a distinction must be kept between plain egotism and (plain or not) struggle for objectivity.
I mean, this is a subject that lends itself to a good share of objective evaluation, this can't be rationally questioned. There's some 'ideal balance' to be seeked, and some correspondence to be restored, between all the subjective factors and the objective substrate. ...phew.

 

[Murdoch]

Quote:

Originally Posted by plainsong You can prefer Grado and not be a hair-rock idiot.

I'm listening to Def Leppards "Pyromania" right now!

Well this thread has definitely squelched my budding bout of upgradeitis for a HD 650. Not that I could afford one anyway!

 

[Andrea]

What's certainly 'holy true', btw, is that no-one needs being persuaded as to what he should like best.

 

[acs236]

I do not doubt that there are some objective judgment you can make about equipment, but I agree with Plainsong that there is a lot more ego-driven comments in this thread than attempts at objectivity.

 

[Andrea]

acs236, I guess so as well... I can't tell surely, as I haven't paid any much attention to the path taken by this thread before.

 

[PeterR]

The thing is that there are certain camps so caught up in their routines that any attempt at a rational discussion will be dismissed if not ignored. It's all so predictable.
"I don't like HD-650" - "Get a better amp" - "Nonsense, get a Grado" - "No, get a cable" - "Sennheisers are boring" - "No, they're not" - "Yes, they are" - "No, they're not" - "You're an idiot" - "No, you're an idiot" - "No, you..."

You could have more interesting discussions with Edbot.