[JoeWhip]

I am with Ableza, as we installed the Unison last night. Very nice increase in SQ. Not night and day but damn nice,

 

[gdhal]

.....installed the Unison last night. Very nice increase in SQ. Not night and day but damn nice,

Now that makes a lot more sense.

EDIT: @JoeWhip Are your impressions based on USB Gen 5 compared to the Unison USB, SPDIF or both? Thank you.

 

[crazychile]

Speaking of measurements - and I haven't checked so just asking - I've read in another forum claims that the bitfrost measures better than yggdrasil. This based on the APx555 report posted on the Schiit website. Any feedback you (or anyone else) have around that is appreciated. Thank you.

A few things to keep in mind about reviews from this "other forum". The guy measures stuff that is inaudible and doesn't matter. The guy gets measurement results that other measurement wizards can't seem to duplicate. The guy loves and recommends cheap chi-fi because by his methodology, it measures really well and is therefore the best. A lot of people tend to sell it shortly after buying it.

So what does it matter if the Bifrost measures better than Yggdrasil? I believe that Schiit even confirms that the Modi measures better than Yggdrasil. Having owned versions of all three, I prefer my Yggdrasil and don't worry what other people think.

 

[gdhal]

A few things to keep in mind about reviews from this "other forum". The guy measures stuff that is inaudible and doesn't matter. The guy gets measurement results that other measurement wizards can't seem to duplicate. The guy loves and recommends cheap chi-fi because by his methodology, it measures really well and is therefore the best. A lot of people tend to sell it shortly after buying it.

So what does it matter if the Bifrost measures better than Yggdrasil? I believe that Schiit even confirms that the Modi measures better than Yggdrasil. Having owned versions of all three, I prefer my Yggdrasil and don't worry what other people think.

Yes, I've kept in mind what you state about (certain) measurements being inaudible. Nevertheless, I think it best and prefer to check as many sources (other sites, professional reviews and so on) as possible/practical. This site (thread) has a reputation of being a "fan club" of sorts so the posts and information provided herein, while very valuable, informative and for the most part true, should also be taken with the proverbial grain-of-salt.

As to your question "So what does it matter if the Bifrost measures better than Yggdrasil?", I simply find this curious to understand/know if in fact true. While it is perhaps completely irrelevant that other DACs (for example, Benchmark 3) might or actually do measure better than Yggdrasil, I would have *thought* that within the same product line (Schiit Dacs), the "flagship" model Yggdrasil would be "best" at everything (subjective and objective) beneath it.

 

[Ableza]

I'm an Yggdrasil owner too, and a rather satisfied one at that.

Excellent. get a Unison board and check it out. I'd be interested in reading your impression.

 

[JoeWhip]

Both. The Unison is my preferred method. A friend uses AES so when I have the time we will do a comparison with that. He does not listen to the Yggy with USB although he is having Unison installed this week.

 

[gdhal]

Excellent. get a Unison board and check it out. I'd be interested in reading your impression.

Thanks (for your interest in my impressions). If I were using USB, I probably would. My source is RCA coax though and I'm not looking to change that anytime soon. But I do take your word and that of others that unison is "better".

 

[SuperRoo]

Just finished my Unison upgrade. It was not hard and well worth it. I definitely noticed an improvement.

 

[Currawong]

Speaking of measurements - and I haven't checked so just asking - I've read in another forum claims that the bitfrost measures better than yggdrasil. This based on the APx555 report posted on the Schiit website. Any feedback you (or anyone else) have around that is appreciated. Thank you.

I wouldn't read too much into measurements. I can clearly make out, level-matched, that the Yggdrasil is better performing. Measurements are for the manufacturer to check if a circuit or design is performing properly. They are not for random people to create internet sites of to gain popularity by trashing manufacturers and claiming that they are saving consumers from "bad" products. Heck, I've had DACs here that could be switched into non-oversampling mode, in which they measured astronomically badly compared to when they were doing regular over-sampling, yet the sonic differences when listening to music (test tones and sweeps used in measurements are NOT music) were fairly minimal, if fairly readily audible.

 

[poorsod]

I wouldn't read too much into measurements. I can clearly make out, level-matched, that the Yggdrasil is better performing. Measurements are for the manufacturer to check if a circuit or design is performing properly. They are not for random people to create internet sites of to gain popularity by trashing manufacturers and claiming that they are saving consumers from "bad" products. Heck, I've had DACs here that could be switched into non-oversampling mode, in which they measured astronomically badly compared to when they were doing regular over-sampling, yet the sonic differences when listening to music (test tones and sweeps used in measurements are NOT music) were fairly minimal, if fairly readily audible.

Can anyone explain why measurements are only done with steady state test tones and not music? Theoretically it should be possible to send a digital music file to a DAC and ADC the output back to a digital file. Then you can compare the input file with the output file. The closer the better right?

I suspect no one does this because the input and output are so vastly different it’s hard to make heads or tails of the result. Is that right? Has anyone tried it?

 

[gdhal]

I wouldn't read too much into measurements. I can clearly make out, level-matched, that the Yggdrasil is better performing. Measurements are for the manufacturer to check if a circuit or design is performing properly. They are not for random people to create internet sites of to gain popularity by trashing manufacturers and claiming that they are saving consumers from "bad" products. Heck, I've had DACs here that could be switched into non-oversampling mode, in which they measured astronomically badly compared to when they were doing regular over-sampling, yet the sonic differences when listening to music (test tones and sweeps used in measurements are NOT music) were fairly minimal, if fairly readily audible.

I understand what you're indicating when you write "I wouldn't read too much into measurements".

But lets face it, if the Yggdrasil measured better than any other DAC on the planet, let alone other DACs within the Schiit product line, members on this forum would certainly tout about it, boast about it, and use that fact in addition to their subjective listening impressions when exclaiming how wonderful it converts digital to analog for our listening pleasure.

 

[US Blues]

I understand what you're indicating when you write "I wouldn't read too much into measurements".

But lets face it, if the Yggdrasil measured better than any other DAC on the planet, let alone other DACs within the Schiit product line, members on this forum would certainly tout about it, boast about it, and use that fact in addition to their subjective listening impressions when exclaiming how wonderful it converts digital to analog for our listening pleasure.

Um, no. I sold Hi Fi in the 80's and learned very quickly how meaningless the numbers are. It's all about the sound.

 

[Jvincent]

This site (thread) has a reputation of being a "fan club" of sorts so the posts and information provided herein, while very valuable, informative and for the most part true, should also be taken with the proverbial grain-of-salt.

Any and all reviews should be taken with a grain of salt... its someone else listening with different ears than your own for different things than you would. You wont know anything for certain until you do it yourself. If you're interested order the unison board (its pretty cheap all things considered) if you're not interested then don't order it.

 

[Ableza]

Can anyone explain why measurements are only done with steady state test tones and not music?

The main reason is that measurements are intended to verify a design, not to test how something sounds, and verification requires testing performance to certain specs. Generating a known, calibrated test signal is the only way to verify if a design is objectively performing to spec.

Listening tests should always be done with music, and preferably with known music, and the results are always subjective to the listener

This is why test measurements are not necessarily the best guide to how something sounds, and they can never be used as more than predictive. speculative metrics for how something might sound to a wide audience. Measurements give a designer an idea that they have created a proper design and that it "should" sound right, but it is not the end-all.

 

[US Blues]

The main reason is that measurements are intended to verify a design, not to test how something sounds, and verification requires testing performance to certain specs. Generating a known, calibrated test signal is the only way to verify if a design is objectively performing to spec.

Listening tests should always be done with music, and preferably with known music, and the results are always subjective to the listener

This is why test measurements are not necessarily the best guide to how something sounds, and they can never be used as more than predictive. speculative metrics for how something might sound to a wide audience. Measurements give a designer an idea that they have created a proper design and that it "should" sound right, but it is not the end-all.

In other words, and to quote @Baldr, things can test well and still sound like ass.