[M. Bouche]

I cannot tell you specific numbers on Yggdrasil vs Mimby, but from my general experimentation and understanding having used a number of VSTs and dealt with trying to reduce latency, your output method and buffer size is by far the biggest contributor to latency (or the lack there of).

Theoretically the different input types could have different latencies; USB would probably be the worst since it is an extra step, but it is unlikely that it adds enough extra samples of latency to be noticeable.

Any converters will also add some amount of latency, although again, it's likely to not be any worse than using the USB input in general (or at least, not perceptible).

By far, the most important thing you can do to reduce latency with VSTs is to 1) use ASIO (if on Windows), and 2) set your buffer size as small as you can go without getting pops and crackles.

Thank you for your reply!

I have continued my research, and have found that the MOTU 8d would seem to be ideal for my uses. It has an AES/EBU -connection to get the best of Yggy, and a latency of ~1,8ms using a DAW. It can also be connected to an ethernet port of a mac (although with more latency) and can be operated from a phone, so this brings a remote control to the system!

I was again in contact with Schiit, and they did not comment about specifics, but answered that the number will likely be under 10ms, but I have no idea how much.

Then I stumbled upon an article by Stereophile, and they had made some measurements of the Yggy. I'm not sure if I can post this, but please inform me if not, and I will remove this. I wonder if "impulse response" describes the dac's latency, meaning that it would be a little less than 3ms. I understood that when I use the AES/EBU connection, the audio interface (Motu) dictates the clocking frequency, being a master clock, submitting Yggy to be the slave clock.

Fig.1 Schiit Yggdrasil, impulse response (one sample at 0dBFS, 44.1kHz sampling, 4ms time window).
Read more at https://www.stereophile.com/content...da-processor-measurements#Mih2dOYXFQRB0B5o.99


In this case, I would have a total latency of ~6ms (2ms from Motu 8D + 1ms from midi interface + 3ms from the Yggy).

They say that after 10ms human ear starts to hear two distinct noises as being distinct. However, I want less than that, because the human ear also measures distances based on how quickly a sound stimulus reaches the ear. In a real grand piano, the hammers are situated at a distance of 1m (3feet) of the players ears, and for sound waves to reach them it would take 3ms. 6ms of latency would thus produce a sensation of sitting 2 meters away from the piano if I understood correctly. I am not sure this is a problem, I will report to you later.


So, I would gladly know whether this impulse response means the dac's latency. I have no idea how to measure it by myself yet. I am honestly surprised I cannot find this information anywhere. I still understand why Schiit does not measure latency in their products, they make their products for music lovers, not for professional recorders. For some this info would be very welcome.



I'll describe now what I have been doing:

I did have an Apogee Duet at first. It of course was very fast, but its sound quality was very disappointing what came to the piano sound, it was not full and rich, and sounded very digital (for professional audio market, hmm?). I then ordered a Modi Multibit for recreational listening, and noticed its piano sound was considerably better than what I could get from the Duet. Then I thought by getting the Yggy I would have the best possible sound I can afford without having a sense that "this could be better" at the back of my mind, and I wanted to have a sense of piano strings vibrating in front of me.

I was quite right, it seems. The Yggy's piano sound is glorious, it's very lifelike. I am not sure yet whether I have this "strings vibrating in front of me" feeling yet, I am not that far in my experimenting, and I got really discouraged because of the latency issue. (I have by the way one recording of Rostropovich's Bach's cello sonatas, and it was like he was playing in the room, and I want to emphasize that I play with real cellists every week.) When I bought the Yggy I did not yet consider the latency issue to my shame, I simply had forgotten about it. Now I'm crossing my fingers I can figure this out, otherwise I am stuck with a 2600 euro dac! =)

M. Bouche

 

[JerryLeeds]

Joining

 

[acguitar84]

My home yggy quit working with the usb interface. I'm really thinking of abandoning the usb altogether and looking for an AES solution. I've scanned the thread and looked around, and am wondering if some others here are using this setup..

1. Lynx AES16e soundcard, available for 699 bucks it looks like.
2. Lynx CBL-AES1604 - XLR Terminated (Breakout cable for the soundcard) (It's got a lot of xlr cables, where I only need one lol)

Would I also need one more xlr cable to go from the breakout cable to the Yggdrasil's AES/EBU input?

Thanks in advance!
Rick

 

[Alu]

My home yggy quit working with the usb interface. I'm really thinking of abandoning the usb altogether and looking for an AES solution. I've scanned the thread and looked around, and am wondering if some others here are using this setup..

1. Lynx AES16e soundcard, available for 699 bucks it looks like.
2. Lynx CBL-AES1604 - XLR Terminated (Breakout cable for the soundcard) (It's got a lot of xlr cables, where I only need one lol)

Would I also need one more xlr cable to go from the breakout cable to the Yggdrasil's AES/EBU input?

Thanks in advance!
Rick

Hey Rick,

You don't need any additional cables as you can run the breakout one straight into the AES of the Yggy.
I have experienced great results with the card myself.

If you don't feel like spending quite as much on a soundcard and have a PCI slot available on your motherboard instead of a PCI-e one, you could look into getting a used Lynx 16AES card.

They go for much cheaper than the brand new ones and there is no difference in performance as far as I'm aware.

 

[Whitetriton]

Hey Rick,

You don't need any additional cables as you can run the breakout one straight into the AES of the Yggy.
I have experienced great results with the card myself.

If you don't feel like spending quite as much on a soundcard and have a PCI slot available on your motherboard instead of a PCI-e one, you could look into getting a used Lynx 16AES card.

They go for much cheaper than the brand new ones and there is no difference in performance as far as I'm aware.

I second this. I purchased a used PCI version and have been very happy with the results. I've never had the PCI-E version to compare to in my rig, but with how it sounds I don't feel any need to "upgrade".

 

[JerryLeeds]

Anyone know the distance between the Yggdrasil's feet? I have one coming in a few days and I wanted to order the below monitor stand ... which is 11 inches deep ... I wanted to know if this was enough for the yggdrasil's feet to rest on

https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B014...SX236_SY340_QL65&keywords=desktop+riser&psc=1

 

[captblaze]

Anyone know the distance between the Yggdrasil's feet? I have one coming in a few days and I wanted to order the below monitor stand ... which is 11 inches deep ... I wanted to know if this was enough for the yggdrasil's feet to rest on

approx. 9.5 inches

 

[acguitar84]

Thanks everyone for your input on the lynx soundcard. It looks like I'll have to go with the PCI e versions because of my machines though. It's probably been discussed quite a bit, but what were your impressions of the sound improvements of AES over USB? Was it a significant difference?

 

[earnmyturns]

Thanks everyone for your input on the lynx soundcard. It looks like I'll have to go with the PCI e versions because of my machines though. It's probably been discussed quite a bit, but what were your impressions of the sound improvements of AES over USB? Was it a significant difference?

My first digital source for the Yggy was a Sonore microRendu with a UpTone LPS-1 power supply. This is a setup designed to provide a low noise, well clocked USB signal. Now I have AES into my Yggy from an Auralic Aries (femto/LPS model). The difference is not huge, but noticeable: darker backgrounds, better instrument separation.

 

[hifimckinney]

I installed Dante and trust me, for me, the difference is as if I was lost in some corrupted universe and now in a total different world. Once you hear this, you will not talk about separation, black background etc...you feel like as if you are sitting in studio during a mixing mastering session. I bought Atterotech unDAES after reading through gefski's reviews. Some of his explanations were quite tempting that forced me to try this and I am glad that I did.

Once you listen to your digital through Dante you will feel as if you had been listening to corrupted music all along.

 

[acguitar84]

I wonder how the Dante would compare to the Lynx soundcard? They both hook to the yggy using AES? I've searched around and found everyone seems to be really happy with the improvement gained from the Lynx soundcard using AES. Learning as I go along here.

 

[earnmyturns]

I installed Dante and trust me, for me, the difference is as if I was lost in some corrupted universe and now in a total different world. Once you hear this, you will not talk about separation, black background etc...you feel like as if you are sitting in studio during a mixing mastering session. I bought Atterotech unDAES after reading through gefski's reviews. Some of his explanations were quite tempting that forced me to try this and I am glad that I did.

Once you listen to your digital through Dante you will feel as if you had been listening to corrupted music all along.

Glad that you had such a great improvement, but let's not assume this is the only path to nirvana. Your setup achieves two critical things 1) keeping electrically noisy PC signaling and power from traveling to your DAC; 2) not using the DAC's noisy USB receiver. USB decrapifiers can't do this because whatever they do for 1), they rely on the DAC's USB receiver. But there are other ways to do this. My current and best choice is an Auralic Aries (femto clocks, external LPS), which has (for me) the advantage of doing Roon and avoiding the Dante sampling rate constraints.

 

[Galm]

FYI Schiit said the blacks are waiting on metal and silvers should be shipping in like a week if anyone is interested.

 

[johnjen]

For me and a few others here in our local group, the Dante 'solution' is the best we have ever heard.
Of course it isn't just the Dante difference, because several of us have been pushing the entire envelope so to speak, but as a single factor it is a BIG step up from any of our previous attempts at delivering the audio stream to the dac.
And AES is the preferred method, with a possible, and not always available (Jggy for instance), use of I2S.

And it seems that there is additional SQ to be gained by further tweaking the means and method of delivering the digital audio stream.
These insights we are gaining, are helping us understand that digital is just as susceptible to refinements as analog is, perhaps even more so.

And for some, after implementing the Dante network, the resultant changes are not subtle, at all.

And the Atterotech uD0 feeding a Jggy is a great pairing because the Jggy really likes low, as in 44.1 native CD Sample Rates which the uD0 is limited to (96KHz is it's limit).

JJ

 

[winders]

Yggdrasil, or Yggy (not Jggy), does best when you feed it the native bit depth and sample rate of the source material up to 24/192 using its AES/EBU input. Then, it upsamples to 24/355.2 or 24/384.

Using Dante a Lynx AES16e or a Auralic Aries all remove USB from the equation which nothing but a good thing. I would think the Aries would be the best sounding solution as it uses an audio specific and very quiet main board, femto clocks, and a quality external LPS. It also has an AES/EBU output which matches nicely with Yggdrasil's best input.