[Ableza]

Given how quickly you respond to posts of any kind on this forum, it's clear to me what your "agenda" is. And, you're welcome.
.

I respond quickly because I can. Sorry if you can't. But again I ask, what difference does any measurement make if it is inaudible? It make none. And what meaning can we assign to measurements that may be done under questionable and non-controlled conditions? As a laboratory scientist I say: none. As Henry Kloss once said (if you don't know who he is then Google is your friend): "Everything that can be heard can be measured. Not everything that can be measured can be heard."

Your agenda is, it appears, to attack and demand and to seek to place pressure on a company. This is the behavior of a particular type of negatively-motivated internet forum participant, and not from one who wishes to advance the forum in any meaningful way but rather to cause discontent. I suspect you may have to join your friends on my ignore list. I'm sure that means nothing to you, which is as it should be, but please know that if I fail to respond further to you it is not because I think you have made any particularly valid or valuable point. It's because I won't have seen it.

 

[commtrd]

Well it seems the "measurements" thing has been beat here like the proverbial dead horse. Can yall just move along to worthwhile stuff like actual gear comparisons from ALL the builders and purveyors of fine audio gear?
I mean even if these so-called "trolls" are indeed trolls, then just ignoring their input would have them eventually go away of starvation? i.e. "Don't feed the trolls"? Because like it or not, dissenting opinion is valuable in and of itself.

 

[the finisher]

That's what most of us here are trying to do

And yes the only way is to not respond.

 

[amirm]

amirm, at this point, I'm strongly inclined to agree with Currawong -- I feel very confident that I'm once again dealing with nwavguy. Welcome...back?

Your accusation is patently false and uncalled for. I have no idea who NWAVGUY is. I expect such accusations from members, but not owner of this forum. I have provided my full history to anyone who wants to read. I have always and on every forum used my real name. I don't post under aliases. And don't like anyone from the industry doing the same. This includes NWAVGUY, atomicbob or whoever. If you want people to take your technical and professional experience seriously, you need to post under your real credentials so that it can be fully examined by readers.

In addition, I have disputed nwavguy's review and measurements of Behringer. https://audiosciencereview.com/foru...eview-and-measurements-behringer-uca222.2036/

Furthermore, anyone with any technical background reading his contributions and mine see that we are very different people. He has much more hands on electronic design experience than I do for example. On the other hand, I have much more experience in other fields such as signal processing, acoustics, computer technology, etc. And of course on the business and industry side.

Our writing styles are also wildly different. He actually knows how to write proper English!

I have made no personal accusations towards you Jude. Or anyone else. Yet you continue with those against me. And without foundation no less.

You need to read my posts in sound science here and see how much I battle objectivists there, defending much of people here like to see happen. Your moderator there can attest to that:

Furthermore, you have post your measurements and challenges to me in a thread that is inappropriate for it given the resentment from the regular readers of it. You should have post that in a new thread that was moderated and allowed for proper exchange of data to get to a consensus that members here and elsewhere could use.

To that end, my sincere apologies to all the owners and readers of this thread. It is not an appropriate place for this kind of back and forth in general and in the specific regarding measurements. It is creating resentment among people who have a lot in common (love of music, high fidelity, etc.).

Finally, I asked you to email me your project file for AP analyzer. That is what the membership is asking us to do, use common settings. The only way to assure that is to see what you have used so that I can replicate it here. You are refusing to do so. I hope members no longer ask me to work with you in this manner.

 

[MWSVette]

It would appear that there are some who, for whatever reason, choose not to trust their ears. For them if there is not a graph or a measurement, that explains why something sounds better, then it cannot be.

I remember back in the day when "wow and flutter" were the measurements many were concerned about regarding turntables. Never had any idea how my Marantz 6150 measured. Never cared, if the album sounded good to me all was well with the world.

Moral of story. Trust your ears. If you enjoy the sound, what difference does it make how the equipment measures...

 

[gdhal]

This question has been answered with detailed graphs elsewhere (search Bing or Google for "measurements balanced yaggy"). TL; DR: strongest peak is the 2nd harmonic (120Hz), < -100dB single-ended, < -140dB balanced. I recommend the recent "Music and Audio: A User Guide To Better Sound" by Mark Waldrep (who is no multibit fan, BTW) for an easy-to-read introduction to all the relevant concepts. Here's a useful quote (page 213) to put those numbers in perspective: "practical design considerations and real world limitation associated with integrated circuits and discrete components means that the upper limit in 2017 is about 125 dB, which very closely catches [matches?] human hearing."

Thanks!

 

[winders]

One more time:

Well, “perfect” can sound good and it can also sound like crap. Why? Because the measurements we know and use today don’t measure everything that matters in regards to overall sound quality. That’s why, in the end, measurements don’t really matter.

Look at tube gear. Solid state gear measures way better. Yet some of the best sounding gear is tube gear.

 

[hornytoad]

One more time:

Well, “perfect” can sound good and it can also sound like crap. Why? Because the measurements we know and use today don’t measure everything that matters in regards to overall sound quality. That’s why, in the end, measurements don’t really matter.

Look at tube gear. Solid state gear measures way better. Yet some of the best sounding gear is tube gear.

Well said

 

[earnmyturns]

Back to impressions. My A2-upgraded Yggy has 9 days of always on. It's getting to a point that I'm starting to wonder whether I might replace my Holo Spring KTE 3 with another Yggy A2. Here's my plan to decide: 1) switch Yggy A2 to headphone system and Holo Spring to speaker system. 2) Listen to this arrangement for the next week or so. 3) Try to reach a conclusion, or rather, ask my wife how she likes the systems, she's got much better musical discernment than I.

 

[Luis Alberto]

The A1 is a fantastic design and from those who have the A2, its either a correction of a prior issue or an upgrade to the design. In either case, it's a win-win. I will say this, the Yggydrasil is noise sensitive to its source hence the VCO/VXO sensor. Performance wise there is more to discover which lends itself to noise related improvements such as the use of XLR balance or AES as one example. A very approachable design that is easily improved. An A1 admire for now.

 

[Alcophone]

Optical won't do 24/192 but that's from my gaming PC and no worries there. It's probably the signal from the Asus that is preventing this, anyway I don't care, games are now epic in sound.

Are you using a Mini TOSlink adapter? I have tried several on the same cable, and most prevented >96 kHz sample rates from working. There are Mini TOSlink to TOSlink cables, and they just work in my experience, even with 24/192 content.

If the Yggy measurement complaints aren’t audible , I don’t understand what his point is .

Especially if it's not audible, it's easier to claim without someone finding out. You might even think it sounds better because of such a claim, even when it doesn't (Placebo effect). Remember Pietro's fixed power conditioner sounding so marvelous? Even though the piece of equipment plugged into it wasn't used to play music that night, as it turned out?

In Schiit's case, part of it is their bold marketing. I had no idea about multibit until I read their website. At first I was shocked that this expensive DAC only does 21 bits. After all, my $200 Sound Blaster E5 does 24 bits. Or so I thought.

It was Schiit that educated me about (presumably) the truth. They make bold claims - about their own product and those of other manufacturers in the Yggdrasil FAQ:

But the Arglebargle has like twelve 32-bit DACs in it! Yours only has 21 bits! Hell, that’s not a full 24 bits even! What about my 24-bit recordings?
If your 24 bit recordings actually have 24 bits of resolution, we’ll eat a hat. And those "32-bit" DACs? Well, they have this measurement known as “equivalent number of bits.” This means, in English, how many bits of resolution they really have. And that number, for most of them, is about 19.5.

But it’s only 21 bits! I can’t get over that!
We can’t get over the fact that delta-sigma DACs are actually 2- to 5-bit designs. Different strokes for different folks.

I like that someone not friends with Schiit is willing to look into it. Assuming it's done competently, of course. As academic as it may be - I definitely like how Yggy sounds. Haven't heard better, so far [in my systems].

To be fair, I don't think there's a huge conspiracy at play between Schiit and Head-Fi (and AtomicBob, I suppose). But I also don't think Amir has an anti Schiit agenda. Schiit is just cocky and arrogant enough (at least Mike often comes across that way, in his writing) that it would just be oh so satisfying to prove him wrong in some fashion. I think that's the appeal here.
Not so secretly I wish I were as free, fulfilled and accomplished as Mike seems to be with his work. Maybe some of the ASR crowd is somewhat jealous of that as well.

But my preferred outcome would still be Amir finding some flaws in his approach to measurements, leading to results confirming Schiit's claims. Lack of access to an Yggdrasil shouldn't stand in the way of that.

 

[the finisher]

Back to impressions. My A2-upgraded Yggy has 9 days of always on. It's getting to a point that I'm starting to wonder whether I might replace my Holo Spring KTE 3 with another Yggy A2. Here's my plan to decide: 1) switch Yggy A2 to headphone system and Holo Spring to speaker system. 2) Listen to this arrangement for the next week or so. 3) Try to reach a conclusion, or rather, ask my wife how she likes the systems, she's got much better musical discernment than I.

Your lucky. This morning she was listening to music on a phone speaker with a real system right in front of her to cast to, 1 freaking button.

Are you using a Mini TOSlink adapter? I have tried several on the same cable, and most prevented >96 kHz sample rates from working. There are Mini TOSlink to TOSlink cables, and they just work in my experience, even with 24/192 content.

I use a standard Analysis Pulse toslink to a eatx ROG mobo. It does 96 kHZ no issues.
When trying to do 192 you can tell Yggy just can't get a lock, it tries for a bit then quits.
I blame the pos audio chip on the mobo even though it's suppose to do it by spec. These on board controllers are really crap even just outputting pcm.
I need a sound card just to get 192 on it, but it's pointless. My main music source is the same platform but undervolted/IGP and silent. Not using onboard controller, instead a old school pci sound card to pass the pcm. Sound good to me.

 

[bacobits]

Stoddard and Moffitt are bold, sometimes arrogant in a funny way, they march to their own beat. Who would name a Co Schiit in the first place?
Ain't no dummies!! This is a $100 MIl company so they are a target and get picked on.
What I hear here is quite exquisite, period
Everyone knows what's going on at that other site. Uptone audio got nailed too.
If you care about such things , OK. I definitely, defiantly do not.
I'm still in the damn que #13/14 the last 3 weeks. Shiit!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[the finisher]

One thing to keep in mind with the numbers is they are still a relatively small company.
Also it would seem form a recent comment by Jason elsewhere that they are super busy.
Probably why the upgrades take so long.

 

[bacobits]

True.They are a careful ran Co.
They might not have more than 15 people working there?
It's impatience is all.
Carry on........but not with the BS please.