[5genez]

Yes my HP system also drives a set of mini-monitors in a nearfield setup.
Thus far my 800's deliver much greater detail, bass, focus, and all of the other elements of SQ that I have written about, including imaging/staging (the 3d presentation of the sound field).
Although the imaging/staging is much closer on speakers, especially with my new upgraded speakers.

JJ

If the monitors are phase coherent? And, set up carefully.... Detail can pop into place. I have used Audioengine speakers which were very good for what they are. But could never reveal the detail I found with other monitors having first order crossovers. My current speakers are without a crossover and are the most revealing.Using good EQ for the bass ...just enough to balance it out, can make a big difference. But, I do hear bass in perfect balance with headphones because there is no room interaction involved. But, as far as detail? My speakers come out ahead. Its not that my HP's lack detail ...

Just saying what I did to hopefully open some ears to something they assume does not exist. But, one needs to be fanatical in getting both speakers angled exactly and at the right height to achieve what is needed to rival HP's. Too much of a pain for those who find that sort of thing burdensome.

 

[AverageGuyNC]

If it doesn' bother you, don't worry about it. But it has been noted in the past that it is one of the few weaknesses of the Yggy (the other being the slight bass tilt with a forward signature that some people just don't like.)

Can someone explain what a "bass tilt" is to me, or even just link a page of terms that describe it plz?

 

[PacoTaco]

Can someone explain what a "bass tilt" is to me, or even just link a page of terms that describe it plz?

Sorry, I didn' mean anything technical about that. I mean "its signature has a bass emphasis in it," specifically in the subbass.

 

[johnjen]

This is the one aspect I'm most interested in.
The changes (improvement?) in the extreme bottom end.

And I do believe (but could be wrong) the "bass tilt" refers to the square wave response at 20 or 30Hz.
Where the response has a slow gradual slope downwards instead of remaining flat.

My PSA PWD had a real square wave response and I could tell the difference in the extreme bottom end. And while not huge nor annoying there was a degree of 'solidity' behind percussive sources of sound, in the PWD, that softened just a tad with the Jggy.
And on tracks that have extended bass, it was easier to hear the effect of the absolute phase reversal button, again with the PWD.

If the new output section is more 'robust' (flatens out that square wave response at low freqs) I for one will be ecstatic, let alone the hinted at changes in the mids, and other aspects of 'improved' SQ.

And my guess is this analog section redesign is due, at least in part due to the freya line section transplant undertaken by 'others'. And it will be interesting to hear what has changed in the line section, both figuratively and literally.

And yet a 2nd unexpected bonus for all Jggy owners.

JJ

Can someone explain what a "bass tilt" is to me, or even just link a page of terms that describe it plz?

 

[johnjen]

If the monitors are phase coherent? And, set up carefully.... Detail can pop into place. I have used Audioengine speakers which were very good for what they are. But could never reveal the detail I found with other monitors having first order crossovers. My current speakers are without a crossover and are the most revealing.Using good EQ for the bass ...just enough to balance it out, can make a big difference. But, I do hear bass in perfect balance with headphones because there is no room interaction involved. But, as far as detail? My speakers come out ahead. Its not that my HP's lack detail ...

Just saying what I did to hopefully open some ears to something they assume does not exist. But, one needs to be fanatical in getting both speakers angled exactly and at the right height to achieve what is needed to rival HP's. Too much of a pain for those who find that sort of thing burdensome.

I've been running a nearfield set up for several years now and I agree setup is (or can be) crucial in getting the best out of the speakers.

The crossover issue is one where HP's have a distinct advantage over speakers that do use one. My previous cheapy Daytons used just a single cap (1st order xover), while the new Ascend Acoustic Sierra Mini Monitors use a more involved crossover. And judging by the measurements, they have done a very good job of matching everything up, top to bottom, side to side.

And I must admit that both the speakers and amp are still in the 'getting to know one another' stage so most likely the gap will tighten up.
And just today I cranked my Rok amp up to full warp drive power, into the speakers (HP's off).
It was most impressive as the sound field presented more, but didn't get louder, even with it cranked wide open.

Still, given all that, my tweaked 800's in my system out perform these really nifty mini monitors.
And thus far these mini's have remarkable bass and imaging stability and homogeneity given that they use 2 drivers of very different design, and with such a diminutive sized 'woofer' (more like a mid range driver actually).

But time will tell as this new setup settles in, and sometimes speakers can take a while to fully settle down.

NOTE the response shown in the above curves stop at 250Hz.
There is a full bandwidth response curve but it doesn't show the off axis response curves.

JJ

 

[5genez]

And my guess is this analog section redesign is due, at least in part due to the freya line section transplant undertaken by 'others'. And it will be interesting to hear what has changed in the line section, both figuratively and literally.

What do you mean by when you said... "due to the Freya line section transplant undertaken by 'others'." ?

How do you think the new version of the Yggy might impact the sound of the Freya?

 

[5genez]

I've been running a nearfield set up for several years now and I agree setup is (or can be) crucial in getting the best out of the speakers.

The crossover issue is one where HP's have a distinct advantage over speakers that do use one. My previous cheapy Daytons used just a single cap (1st order xover), while the new Ascend Acoustic Sierra Mini Monitors use a more involved crossover. And judging by the measurements, they have done a very good job of matching everything up, top to bottom, side to side.

Headphones using only one driver per side by default are phase coherent. But they deprive the listener a realistic sense of space because of their placement directly on the ears unless its a binaural recording.

The more involved a crossover becomes it may flatten the response on a graph better, but you will lose phase coherency between drivers. When hearing the same note the tweeter may be moving out while simultaneously the woofer/mid is moving inward with that audio signal. They can be out of phase with a higher order crossover.

An excellent first order crossover with high quality drivers will make the speakers disappear because both drivers in the speaker move in phase.. That is what a HP does that many speakers can not because of crossovers that are designed not for phase coherency but rather for a nice effect when listening.

I had a pair of Role Audio Kayaks and they just disappeared as I listened. But, my problem was that they can not take bass boost. They require a sub.

Just a suggestion for those looking for highly accurate nearfield experience...
http:// https://nsmt-loudspeakers.com/Model-10S
https://nsmt-loudspeakers.com/Model-10S
and...
https://nsmt-loudspeakers.com/Model-15


One of those two speakers would be the speaker I would have if I did not already have the Audience 1+1's... They are acoustic suspension, so the bass is tight and accurate. Having heard the Role Audio Kayaks I know these have to be excellent for a reference system. If someone has a good subwoofer the Role Audio Kayaks are also a good way to listen. https://roleaudio.com/kayak

The only reason I recommend these speakers is because if your current speakers have a second or third order crossover (or higher) it can never achieve the truly disappearing act and coherency like HP's do.

 

[JerryLeeds]

I got my yaggy in 09/17 .. had to send it back because there was a loose screw rolling around in the bottom & got a new replacement .. once available I manually upgraded to the Gen 5 ... Very happy with it ... I will wait for more comparisons and of course the extra funds for the new upgrade ... I'll set aside $50/month for it

 

[bacobits]

I will get the upgrade later too. After the rush slows down.
MM wouldn't put out an update unless it made a difference.

 

[radicus]

So the upgrade turns the grey haze purple? I'm in

 

[ToTo Man]

Is it too off-topic to ask here which is the preferred amp to pair with Yggy for driving HD800S, Mjolnir 2 or Ragnarok? I tried Jotunheim last summer but found it too sterile and one-dimensional, I just could not fully 'engage' with it. I'm seeking the amp that offers the best combination of clarity/detail and spaciousness/dimensionality/layering.

 

[johnjen]

What do you mean by when you said... "due to the Freya line section transplant undertaken by 'others'." ?

How do you think the new version of the Yggy might impact the sound of the Freya?

No.
The freya was used as a line section to play with different output schemes from the Jggy.

JJ

 

[5genez]

I've been running a nearfield set up for several years now and I agree setup is (or can be) crucial in getting the best out of the speakers.
JJ

What I discovered.... and is crucial to zeroing in the image from mini monitors.. Is that the height will make a day and night difference in what is heard. The height is not arbitrary. Not sure if this is the place to discuss this factor. But with the Yggy when I have my speakers dialed in with height and angle... I can hear the room of the recording like never heard before... (Though not as distinct as I wished. That is why I am keen to see what the B version will allow for hearing...)

But, just the same. Using a drum rack that I had stored away, I found a way to adjust the height and angles.... and to be able to eliminate a great deal of desk surface bounce.. With this that was concocted a few years ago its opened up a new world. I call it "my headphones off the ears".

Are you familiar with how a drum rack works? Height and angle and width are all adjustable..

Take a peek?

The speaker height can be moved up and down and locked in at an exact height. The wood platforms can be angled to match the other in as many ways that may be needed.

 

[mcbrion]

What I discovered.... and is crucial to zeroing in the image from mini monitors.. Is that the height will make a day and night difference in what is heard. The height is not arbitrary. Not sure if this is the place to discuss this factor. But with the Yggy when I have my speakers dialed in with height and angle... I can hear the room of the recording like never heard before... (Though not as distinct as I wished. That is why I am keen to see what the B version will allow for hearing...)

But, just the same. Using a drum rack that I had stored away, I found a way to adjust the height and angles.... and to be able to eliminate a great deal of desk surface bounce.. With this that was concocted a few years ago its opened up a new world. I call it "my headphones off the ears".

Are you familiar with how a drum rack works? Height and angle and width are all adjustable..

Take a peek?

The speaker height can be moved up and down and locked in at an exact height. The wood platforms can be angled to match the other in as many ways that may be needed.

I agree 100% that speaker height is critical to the sound "cohering."
I have a friend whose system I set up many, many years ago: Sound Dynamic RTS-3s. Being me, I couldn't leave well enough alone (because I suspected there was an "excellent enough" level in there somewhere).
I began dialing in the screws on the plate on which the Sound Dynamics sat. ONE at a time. I had no idea which screw to touch first, so I simply turned the screw something like a fraction of a rotation (almost too small for me to see with my eyes) and then went back and played the track again (this is where digital is REALLY needed: pause, rewind. Imagine trying to do that with vinyl - which I prefer).
Damn! It DID improve the coherence. So I decided not to touch THAT screw again but go to another one and do the same thing. Suffice to say, I realized how critical the exact speaker height, relative to each other, is. I spent hours each weekend "adjusting." (The friend had a housekeeper who constantly brushed against the speakers. I know that, at times, he dreaded my appearance: "Bob! What The Hell!!!!! Would you tell your damn housekeeper NOT to come NEAR the speakers, please??!? She's moved them. I can tell. $#%#!" The poor guy: he almost genuflected when I would appear to hang out and listen to music.)
In my music room, the floor slopes a tiny, tiny bit from side to side (as far as I can tell). So, even when I measured it with a tape measure, and it indicated that both speaker were the same height, I realized I could not depend on that, and adjusted the footers manually. Even the bubble level wasn't precise enough for ultra-fine adjustments. And occasionally, I have to move one speaker or the other to get something OUT of the room I put in it temporarily. (Hey, it's the biggest room in the house!) It was easy to hear the results: less "haze", more focus and that subtle "jitter" that makes music sound as though it is being played by human beings, and not simply an excellent "reproduction." It seems to make the most difference with the speakers and CD players (and, of course, the turntable)which need to be even more level (sometimes) than a bubble level shows it to be. Add in the bending over constantly and you understand how one can TRULY suffer for one's music.

 

[mcbrion]

The grey background is not noise you would hear when no music is playing. It’s hard to describe and I never noticed it until I put the DirectStream in my 2 channel setup. It’s almost like there is a slight haze behind the music when it is playing. My Yggdrasil had Gen 5 USB so that didn’t affect it. I haven’t heard an Yggdrasil with new analog boards so I can’t comment on that.

This seems to be a function of "noise." Tubes generate noise, as does equipment that is vibrating internally. In fact, today, I changed my EAT tube to an older Amperex 6922, and it seemed that the Amperex generated less "noise," so that I could more easily hear the people sitting perfectly still in the orchestra.
I also use Shakti online stabilizers on my Nordost interconnects, and I can unquestionably hear when one has fallen off (I need more Blu-Tack) by just looking over to where the interconnects are. Even on the Nordost, it reduces noise, which, for all I know, could be RFI that the Shakti are cleaning up. But grayness = noise floor: how "distinct" are all the instruments from each other during a crescendo, which can also be related to how well the system holds together without blurring, which is often a function of the pieces of equipment itself.

However, I also read this thread today:
https://positive-feedback.com/Issue14/spdif.htm

I had purchased a Transparent S/PDIF cable to go from my Arcam to my Yggdrasil. One meter. I kept thinking the sound was just slightly less "distinct" than when I just had the Arcam (which of course, I deemed impossible, given that the Yggy is a newer technology) And then I read this article, by the founder of Empirical Audio, who states that, using S/PDIF, you probably want at least 1 1/2 meters of cable due to the "reflection time" going back and forth between the transport and the DAC. Ugh. I think I understand why, when I'm listening to nearly all of my CDS, that, although the Yggdrasil is superior is so many ways, that there could still be a more coherent presentation when using the Arcam. I wonder why my dealer just sold me the one meter length of the S/PDIF cable, but I suspect he just didn't know about this. No matter: I'm going back to his store Tuesday and politely asking him to take it back and order me a 1 1/2 meter length. I don't think there'll be an issue.
Has anyone else experimented with the longer S/PDIF cable length as suggested by Steve Nugent, the CEO and chief designer of Empirical. The article is pretty clear on what happens with shorter cable and I trust his assessment - but I'm not having to guess about it (I'm not big on speculating: I'd rather carry out experiments on my own) , since I'm getting a longer length of the Transparent and it should become apparently rather quickly if what he says applies to my setup.