[Pirakaphile]

I think this humorous passage from Schiit's official FAQ on its website is relevant here:

"How can this possibly be better than, say, the Arglebargle $15,000 DAC when this is so much less expensive?

Because the Arglebargle was most likely designed to the expectations of today, using commonly available parts in a super-fancy case, while we started with a clean sheet of paper.

But the Arglebargle has like twelve 32-bit DACs in it! Yours only has 21 bits! Hell, that’s not a full 24 bits even! What about my 24-bit recordings?

If your 24 bit recordings actually have 24 bits of resolution, we’ll eat a hat. And those "32-bit" DACs? Well, they have this measurement known as “equivalent number of bits.” This means, in English, how many bits of resolution they really have. And that number is 19.5. And 21 is better than 19.5, in all the math books we know."

Someone should scrounge together some money and make a company called Arglebargle, with offerings like the Craphound and Farttnishtike. One of the biggest reasons why I like Schiit. They're funny people. Two of my favorite things together. Funny, and people. And they make some good audio gear right here in 'Mur-ca. Even if you don't like their gear, admit it, everyone wants to spend a day out with Jason and crew over lots of food and drinks.

 

[Wino]

I think this humorous passage from Schiit's official FAQ on its website is relevant here:

"How can this possibly be better than, say, the Arglebargle $15,000 DAC when this is so much less expensive?

Because the Arglebargle was most likely designed to the expectations of today, using commonly available parts in a super-fancy case, while we started with a clean sheet of paper.

But the Arglebargle has like twelve 32-bit DACs in it! Yours only has 21 bits! Hell, that’s not a full 24 bits even! What about my 24-bit recordings?

If your 24 bit recordings actually have 24 bits of resolution, we’ll eat a hat. And those "32-bit" DACs? Well, they have this measurement known as “equivalent number of bits.” This means, in English, how many bits of resolution they really have. And that number is 19.5. And 21 is better than 19.5, in all the math books we know."

 
 
Lui-
 
Good one !
 
Unfortunately just because they so…. don't make it true...
 
David

 

[Liu Junyuan]

Wino

Yes, indeed. I just thought of it given the recent turn in conversation. Cheers

 

[Wino]

I just assumed that once you hit about $1k, all DACs are pretty even on the playing field and just have different presentations of the same data. I mean, what more can you put in a DAC to make it any 'better' than the Yggdrasil? Granted, I haven't heard anything other than my Modi, but it just seems weird that the ten thousanth decimal difference in performance between DACs can be noticable by anything other than a precision testing device. Audio components all have their different sounds, but once you get to a point you can't get any higher. There's only so much resolution the human ear can detect, and we've invented equipment, like the Yggy, that far surpasses the limitations of human hearing. What makes a $20k DAC better than a $1k one?
Lots of things to go through, including sound preference, imaginary beliefs, music type, speakers or headphones, but what exactly makes the difference in 'betterness' between TOTL audio gear other than personal opinion and preference. Maybe I've gone too far off topic, but it seems odd to me that you can improve on something designed so methodologically (yay new word) for nothing other than superior sound reproduction.

All that bullschiit said, I've really enjoyed reading everyone's impressions, good and bad, watching the pointless arguments, and seeing the ridiculous burn-in/warmup cunundrum in the length of this thread. I'm happy to say that I'm probably going to get the Yggdrasil in the future because I'm not willing to spend more than $2.5k on an end-game DAC and I'm convinced that the Yggy is the best use of my funds based on the fact that most everyone who has one has ended their rampant postings of warmup and impressions with "just enjoying the music", and dammit, that's why I'm in this hobby.

For the music!

 
Uh… no… all DACs are NOT "pretty even on the playing field"… PLEASE go to some high-end stores or audio shows… then report back….
 
Your comments are just silly…. do you really think that everyone who spends tons of money on audio gear (who by the way must be pretty smart to have earned all that money) are just fools ?
 
There is no conundrum to burn in… it's real… you can hear it… there's no conundrum to warm up… read what Schiit says… leave it on 24/7…. believe these established facts… or don't….
 
If you are "for the music"…. then go listen to some very high-end gear pleeeeeeze !
 
You may not be able to afford it, or maybe you don't feel it's 'worth it'…… doesn't mean other's (many, many) agree….
 
David

 

[Liu Junyuan]

Someone should scrounge together some money and make a company called Arglebargle, with offerings like the Craphound and Farttnishtike. One of the biggest reasons why I like Schiit. They're funny people. Two of my favorite things together. Funny, and people. And they make some good audio gear right here in 'Mur-ca. Even if you don't like their gear, admit it, everyone wants to spend a day out with Jason and crew over lots of food and drinks.

Its a cool name.

 

[yfei]

I think this humorous passage from Schiit's official FAQ on its website is relevant here:

"How can this possibly be better than, say, the Arglebargle $15,000 DAC when this is so much less expensive?

 
Logically I don't see any contradiction between what Wino said and what Schiit said.      There are $10k, $20k DACs that cost so much because of the gold plate, and Yggy is better than those;   and there are also $10k, $20k DACs that spent money on real R&D and get things right,  and yggy might not be as good.
 
Now my Yggy has been through >4weeks of burn-in, but I only got 1~2 hours to listen, so this is very brief initial impressions:   The sound is truth, direct.  This is exactly what I am looking for, and what I liked in the past:  Benchmark DAC1,   Lynx Hilo.  Their design philosophy are similar.   I am extremely happy.    
But my past experiences tell me, this might not satisfy everyone,  only smaller percentage of audiences are looking for this.   I might be wrong.
 
Yggy is the most expensive DAC I've tried, hope one day I will get a chance to audition some good >$10k DACs.

 

[Wino]

@Wino

Yes, indeed. I just thought of it given the recent turn in conversation. Cheers

 
I see your point...
 
Mine is simple… I own one for 1.5 months… many have heard it at my house… sometimes side by side w/ other DACs….
 
I'm lucky to have owned & been exposed to lots of high-end gear….  our consensus is simple… hasn't changed… pretty sure anyone would agree… 
 
Yggy is great, great, great…. to a point…. not beyond…. law of parts costs enter in...
 
Why is there anything wrong w/ Yggy being maybe double or a little more, of it's cost in SQ ?  Not beyond...
 
Why are people, many of which who haven't even heard one, drinking so much Koolaide & saying silly things ?
 
David

 

[Liu Junyuan]

Logically I don't see any contradiction between what Wino said and what Schiit said.      There are $10k, $20k DACs that cost so much because of the gold plate, and Yggy is better than those;   and there are also $10k, $20k DACs that spent money on real R&D and get things right,  and yggy might not be as good.

Yggy is the most expensive DAC I've tried, hope one day I will get a chance to audition some good >$10k DACs.

Yes, good logic !

 

[Pirakaphile]

Uh… no… all DACs are NOT "pretty even on the playing field"… PLEASE go to some high-end stores or audio shows… then report back….

Your comments are just silly…. do you really think that everyone who spends tons of money on audio gear (who by the way must be pretty smart to have earned all that money) are just fools ?

There is no conundrum to burn in… it's real… you can hear it… there's no conundrum to warm up… read what Schiit says… leave it on 24/7…. believe these established facts… or don't….

If you are "for the music"…. then go listen to some very high-end gear pleeeeeeze !

You may not be able to afford it, or maybe you don't feel it's 'worth it'…… doesn't mean other's (many, many) agree….

David

I don't ever want to hear gear that costs more than I can afford because I want to have a place to live!
I don't doubt warm up and burn in, especially in precision electronics and moving parts because I've experienced it myself. Don't worry, I'm not here to smear my uneducated views on others faces.
However, lots of people who have lots of money are fools. *cough cough* koch brothers, wallmart family.. But we're not here for politics! I think ultra-high end gear has its place, and that is in the hands of those who can readily afford it. For the working Joe and middle-class Marvin, Schitt has us covered, as well as a variety of other budget oriented companies. I just think that in and around it's price bracket, the Yggy has little competition. Owners of the Yggy and Schiit have firm views on that as well!
I'm just saying, for the money I'm willing tofork over, only a few companies really squeeze the best out of the dollars I give em. Magnepan, Schiit, and a few others are always on my radar because they strive to get the best performance to cost ratio. I don't care that others buy equipment that costs more than my old house, it's their life! I just don't have money to burn, so I enjoy buying from companies who understand that I want to get the best product for my money and I think the Yggy will do just that for me.
I may listen to ultra high end gear someday, but I know that the best system you can have is one that you're glad to listen to. I wouldn't be happy listening to an amp that costs as much as a good car because I think my money would be more wisely spent. IfI win the lottery someday though, maybe I'll get into hilarious $20k+ audio stuff just for the hell of it.

Oh, and by the way, the best way to listen to music is live and as part of the band. Much cheaper! ;p

 

[Wino]

   
Logically I don't see any contradiction between what Wino said and what Schiit said.      There are $10k, $20k DACs that cost so much because of the gold plate, and Yggy is better than those;   and there are also $10k, $20k DACs that spent money on real R&D and get things right,  and yggy might not be as good.
 
Yggy is the most expensive DAC I've tried, hope one day I will get a chance to audition some good >$10k DACs.

Hey Yue-
 
When did your Yggy arrive ?  Are you loving it ?  
 
You should come by...
 
David

 

[Liu Junyuan]

I see your point...

Mine is simple… I own one for 1.5 months… many have heard it at my house… sometimes side by side w/ other DACs….

I'm lucky to have owned & been exposed to lots of high-end gear….  our consensus is simple… hasn't changed… pretty sure anyone would agree… 

Yggy is great, great, great…. to a point…. not beyond…. law of parts costs enter in...

Why is there anything wrong w/ Yggy being maybe double or a little more, of it's cost in SQ ?  Not beyond...

Why are people, many of which who haven't even heard one, drinking so much Koolaide & saying silly things ?

David

Dont worry about it so much. The Yggy is a great DAC but not the best you have heard. Cool

 

[Wino]

I don't ever want to hear gear that costs more than I can afford because I want to have a place to live!

I don't doubt warm up and burn in, especially in precision electronics and moving parts because I've experienced it myself. Don't worry, I'm not here to smear my uneducated views on others faces.
However, lots of people who have lots of money are fools. *cough cough* koch brothers, wallmart family.. But we're not here for politics! I think ultra-high end gear has its place, and that is in the hands of those who can readily afford it. For the working Joe and middle-class Marvin, Schitt has us covered, as well as a variety of other budget oriented companies. I just think that in and around it's price bracket, the Yggy has little competition. Owners of the Yggy and Schiit have firm views on that as well!
I'm just saying, for the money I'm willing tofork over, only a few companies really squeeze the best out of the dollars I give em. Magnepan, Schiit, and a few others are always on my radar because they strive to get the best performance to cost ratio. I don't care that others buy equipment that costs more than my old house, it's their life! I just don't have money to burn, so I enjoy buying from companies who understand that I want to get the best product for my money and I think the Yggy will do just that for me.
I may listen to ultra high end gear someday, but I know that the best system you can have is one that you're glad to listen to. I wouldn't be happy listening to an amp that costs as much as a good car because I think my money would be more wisely spent. IfI win the lottery someday though, maybe I'll get into hilarious $20k+ audio stuff just for the hell of it.

Oh, and by the way, the best way to listen to music is live and as part of the band. Much cheaper! ;p

 
Ok, finally I agree w/ a good portion of what you've said, haha...

 

[yfei]

   
As I said above.. a statement DAC is min. 20K….
Is a VW Golf pretty darn close to a Porsche 911 Turbo ? 

I like the car analogy.
From track racing performance point of view,   $25k VW Golf beats $150k Bentley Continental GT.      But it won't beat $150k Porsche 911 Turbo.        There are $100k cars only look right, but don't race right.  There are also $100k cars both look right and race right.

 

[aive]

Discussing philosophy of luxury goods items and marketing in a DAC thread. Only on headfi, continue

 

[money4me247]

Discussing philosophy of luxury goods items and marketing in a DAC thread. Only on headfi, continue

hahaha. just my two cents from personal experience. higher price does not always equal higher sound quality. there are great luxury dacs and then there are not-so-great luxuruy dacs. i would hesitant talking about any dacs simply based on price point without a personal audition.