[TheAttorney]

  AES/EBU has shown a noticeable, but not huge, improvement over optical or COAX into my Yggdrasil, but I can't tell the difference between optical and COAX there so far.

A while back I posted that in my system (source was Nagra CDC CD player) optical sounded significantly better than coax (RCA), which itself was better than AES. Which just goes to show that each owner has to try these things for themselves in their own system. What somebody else experiences, or what the science predicts, seems to have little bearing on what I actually hear.

 

[Torq]

  A while back I posted that in my system (source was Nagra CDC CD player) optical sounded significantly better than coax (RCA), which itself was better than AES. Which just goes to show that each owner has to try these things for themselves in their own system. What somebody else experiences, or what the science predicts, seems to have little bearing on what I actually hear.

 
Absolutely!
 
Over the years, I've definitely seen different pieces of equipment shine with different interfaces.
 
Out of the Aries, I definitely prefer the AES/EBU interface into the Yggdrasil compared to it's optical and COAX.  And I prefer the Aries via AES/EBU to a direct optical connection from my 2015 Mac Pro.  But prior to that, optical was what I preferred compared to anything else I'd fed the Yggdrasil with.
 
Of course, where it gets really fun is when one device has all three outputs/inputs and you have a group of listeners in which none agree on which sounds the best!

 

[mikoss]

IMO, Chromecast audio unfortunately has one fatal flaw that keeps me from using it anymore, and that's the fact that it must be connected to Google play services to work.  So, if you don't have internet access, there is no way that you can cast to it, regardless of what app or source you are using (local or cloud).  There are many other devices that accomplish what CC Audio does, and more, that don't require internet access.

Perhaps you were running an old firmware version on Chromecast Audio. It works just fine without Internet access, streaming via NAS, or local files. I know it does up to 24/96 FLAC without any issues, just need wifi.

 

[Tbone289]

Perhaps you were running an old firmware version on Chromecast Audio. It works just fine without Internet access, streaming via NAS, or local files. I know it does up to 24/96 FLAC without any issues, just need wifi.

I would like to see how you're doing that.  You have no internet connection on that wifi network?
 
I have the latest firmware (1.1855065), and I am unable to stream DLNA/PnP to CCA without internet access.
 
Disconnect from your ISP and see if it works.
 
Perhaps you would like to participate in the discussion here: https://productforums.google.com/forum/#!topic/chromecast/XRktmNTk0QY
 
And, see here under in the Chromcast Audio FAQ "Do I need an internet connection?": https://support.google.com/chromecast/answer/6279416?hl=en
 
Basically, Google, CCA users and I don't agree with you.  I hope you can prove us wrong.

 

[earnmyturns]

 
Sorry my bad on the use of words.  As opposed to stream, i meant send by WiFi. I can hear a different between using a cabled cat 6 connection and sending via Wifi.   not sure what the Bryston does correctly , and as you mention maybe it just does a good job at keeping noise away from the connection to the DAC, but when ever it is , it seems to be done right.  

Got it. I've never found an effective WiFi streaming setup for hi-res, so all my streaming is wired. I can imagine that a well-designed streamer like the Bryston could do enough buffering to circumvent packet losses on Wifi, at least with UPnP/DLNA, which uses TCP/IP connections for streaming, so lost packets are retransmitted (with a lag). But why mess around with large buffers when nice CAT 6 wires are possible?

 

[mikoss]

 
I would like to see how you're doing that....

We're really far from discussing the Yggdrasil, but I'll PM you some info. It's quite simple to do... you just need to load the player and then switch to your LAN of the same network SSID.

 

[johnjen]

So as an experiment I re-connected my optical cable back into my Mac Pro (pre Vader trash can model) and PWD.

After figuring out which inputs/outputs to configure I can switch back and forth with less than a 1 minute delay.

My usb is still 'Better' in terms of SQ.
It's not a HUGE difference but once again I heard tube like coloration shifts, which is surprising, yet again.
There were no drop outs or timing issues so I'm assuming that a 'better' optical cable won't make much if any audible difference, but I could be wrong about that.

I found the Lifatec cable and it certainly seems like a 'audio grade' piece of gear.
And reasonably priced at that.
Perhaps it might 'help' raise the bar for toslink, but I figure optical is much less susceptible to cable differences than any electrical data type path.
So, unless your experience supports a SQ shift with this cable I figure, for whatever reason my existing USB implementation is still gunna be 'Better'.

JJ

 

[johnjen]

snip

Of course, where it gets really fun is when one device has all three outputs/inputs and you have a group of listeners in which none agree on which sounds the best!

I have found that when that happens the changes are at the threshold of perceptibility, as in the 15% or less category.
It's really hard to make a definitive determination when the changes are so subtle.

JJ

 

[landroni]

So as an experiment I re-connected my optical cable back into my Mac Pro (pre Vader trash can model) and PWD.

After figuring out which inputs/outputs to configure I can switch back and forth with less than a 1 minute delay.

My usb is still 'Better' in terms of SQ.
It's not a HUGE difference but once again I heard tube like coloration shifts, which is surprising, yet again.
There were no drop outs or timing issues so I'm assuming that a 'better' optical cable won't make much if any audible difference, but I could be wrong about that.

I found the Lifatec cable and it certainly seems like a 'audio grade' piece of gear.
And reasonably priced at that.
Perhaps it might 'help' raise the bar for toslink, but I figure optical is much less susceptible to cable differences than any electrical data type path.
So, unless your experience supports a SQ shift with this cable I figure, for whatever reason my existing USB implementation is still gunna be 'Better'.

JJ

Personally I'm suspicious of USB on principle for the simple reason that unless you go with Bentley-priced solutions north of $1-2K, you will most probably be confronted with an implementation with no galvanic isolation, which may pick up noise from the laptop or in the path and pass it downstream in the chain (ending into your transducers). Even things like Wyrd won't help with that, as no Schiit products have USB galvanic isolation.
 
By contrast, optical won't pick up any noise and will simply transmit the bits. In this sense a good, short glass Toslink cable (e.g. Torq's Lifatec recommendation), and decent output and input transceivers should be sufficient to best an unaided USB implementation any day. That's my intuition, anyways.

 

[tjl5709]

Has anyone moved to a dedicated USB card for their yggy and run into a boot problem? I installed a USB 2.0 card to move the yggy to it's own dedicated usb controller.  I keep the yggy powered on, so when the computer starts it's boot, it gets hung up. I am making the assumption that it is waiting for the yggy to give it boot instructions. I did not run into this when it was plugged into the motherboard USB 2.0 and if I unplug the USB line from the yggy, it boots fine. I went into my bio's to see if I could play with the boot configuration, but that led me nowhere. Any ideas or clues?

 

[b0bb]

  Has anyone moved to a dedicated USB card for their yggy and run into a boot problem? I installed a USB 2.0 card to move the yggy to it's own dedicated usb controller.  I keep the yggy powered on, so when the computer starts it's boot, it gets hung up. I am making the assumption that it is waiting for the yggy to give it boot instructions. I did not run into this when it was plugged into the motherboard USB 2.0 and if I unplug the USB line from the yggy, it boots fine. I went into my bio's to see if I could play with the boot configuration, but that led me nowhere. Any ideas or clues?

Try plugging the Yggy and the computer into a powered hub, it sounds like the 3rdparty USB card on the computer failed to reset on powerup with the Yggy plugged in.
 
If the hub fixes the problem, see if another card from a different chip manufacturer works, the 2 main ones are Renesas and Via, if you have a Via chip swap it for a card with a Renesas chip or vice versa.

 

[tjl5709]

Thanks for the ideas. My short term fix thus far was to change the boot sequense to go direct to my ssd. I reached out to the card tech support, and they brought up power. Your idea might be in the same scope of the issue. I have not hooked up the card to my power supply because I did not have the l4 power cord. I'll try that, and your idea this week when I get the power cord to drive the card directly from the PS. Thx.

 

[artur9]

   
Unfortunately today the options with "proper" AES/EBU digital interfaces are things like the Aries.  

It's disappointing that the BMC MiniMedia only has USB output.  The Simaudio MiND seems like a good bet.  Maybe the new Bryston, when it comes out, will be a contender.

 

[Torq]

So as an experiment I re-connected my optical cable back into my Mac Pro (pre Vader trash can model) and PWD.

After figuring out which inputs/outputs to configure I can switch back and forth with less than a 1 minute delay.

My usb is still 'Better' in terms of SQ.
It's not a HUGE difference but once again I heard tube like coloration shifts, which is surprising, yet again.
There were no drop outs or timing issues so I'm assuming that a 'better' optical cable won't make much if any audible difference, but I could be wrong about that.

I found the Lifatec cable and it certainly seems like a 'audio grade' piece of gear.
And reasonably priced at that.
Perhaps it might 'help' raise the bar for toslink, but I figure optical is much less susceptible to cable differences than any electrical data type path.
So, unless your experience supports a SQ shift with this cable I figure, for whatever reason my existing USB implementation is still gunna be 'Better'.

JJ

 
I've experienced shifts in functionality (works/doesn't work) as well as variations in sound quality different bit-rates with different optical cables.  The best cable I've found (and tested, both in my system and in the office lab) has been the Lifatec.  That it is very reasonably priced compared to much of the competition is nice as well.
 
I like the Sysconcepts optical cables also, but I use their multi-strand plastic cables for very-tight-bend-radius portable solutions there.
 
While I can't say whether it'll do anything for you, you're welcome to borrow one of mine if you want to try it out in your own system.  You can also take one or two of my other cables for comparison if you like (one of which simply won't work above 16/48).
 
Some more detail, if you're interested, below.
 

Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!

Optical connections, TOSLINK in particular, are subject to a couple or three things ...
 
The first is attenuation of the signal over distance (true of electrical cables too).  Plastic cables typically have higher attenuation rates than high-quality glass and tend to become problematic at shorter distances.  It's quite possible to get to a point where, and I'm grossly simplifying here, "1" and "0" become unreliably distinguishable (specifically, some of the "1" pulses may simply not have the amplitude to register in the receiver).  There's not really any subjectivity to this effect - and it's why optical fibers carry attenuation ratings.
 
How that actually manifests itself, from an audio perspective, is dependent on the receiver implementation, as well as how severe the effect is.  It may result in drop-outs, it may result in audible corruption, it may result in static or it may get smoothed over, or it may just result in the receiver refusing to sync and play (i.e. the cable just won't work).
It's worth noting that as the transmission frequency increases (or as the sample rate goes up) this will tend to have a greater impact.
 
The degree to which this is an issue at typical cable lengths in an audio system is another matter, of course.
 
The second is related to how an optical signal actual travels along a fiber.  I'll skip the gummy physics and math, but essentially the light wave bounces along the fiber under-going total internal reflection (ideally) at the boundaries of the medium.  As a result, and again I'm simplifying heavily, if the optical fiber is bent, then wave can be partially reflected at different points along the medium boundary and this results in a time-based distribution of the signals arrival at the other end of the cable.  At high enough clock rates, this can smear the signal edges and make it harder, or impossible, to properly recover bit-states.  It also results in signal jitter, since the signal edges are, essentially, how the clock is determined (and it's why TOSLINK uses a bi-phase clock).
 
Using lots of very small diameter fibers helps address issues from bending the cable.  Glass generally has a higher refractive index than plastic and as a result total internal reflection is more reliable.  So a better cable will general be multi-strand and glass.
 
In general, the fewer bends you have, and the larger their radius, the better off you are.
 
Finally, the polish on the ends of the cable makes a VERY big difference to how well they work - and if the ends get damaged (which can be as simple as touching them) it'll often severely impact the speeds the cable will work at, or even if they'll work at all.
 

 

[johnjen]

Thanks for the offer to try a couple of your cables, and thanks for the insights into the details about optical cables.

I remember that some early optical cables used to use a liquid as a 'bridge' between ends of the cable and the receiver to ensure 'proper' transfer of the data.
In fact I think it was Theta (Mike Moffet's former company) that used proprietary optical connectors with a special 'goo' at each end just to ensure a proper transfer of the data.

It would be an interesting experiment to see if the Lifatec cable makes a difference and if the changes would be enough to elevate the SQ to be 'Better' than my USB data path.

JJ