Schiit Vali 3 : Impressions Thread

[ThEvil0nE]

Acoustic guitar cover version of Fast Car by

is so satisfying.

 

[568812]

Do you mean an all tube amp, with a single (dual section) driver stage and a single (dual section) output tube like the Crack or Eufonika H5? That would be an interestingly hot amp in that small footprint.

Or do you mean a hybrid amp with 2 (dual section) driver tubes like 5670 and SS output? In that case, absolutely not... because it will sound worse than the Vali 3 and cost more money. Bad tradeoff for me.

But why? Because... the only reason a designer doubles the input driver tubes with the same dual section glass is because the design is too noisy for a single driver. Strapping the sections in parallel in a triode tube reduces noise. The Vali 3 is already very low noise. Quieter than my Cavalli SS amp.

The other reason to operate twice as many tubes as needed is because the output section of the design is hard to drive. A SS output section is not a tough load for a driver tube. Not like driving a pair of 300Bs... even if there are designs that use a single 396A to do so very well.

The downsides to doubled driver tubes in a hybrid amp, is the waste of the added gain. That either is combatted with more negative feedback (ugh) or the user is stuck with an amp that has limited normal volume range. Negative feedback while a panacea to achieve useless inaudible distortion levels, is like sonic Novocain, especially bad with tube amps. It kills the joy of tube rolling as it makes all the tubes sound more meh - bad tubes sound meh, good tubes sound meh, great tubes sound slightly less meh.

As Jason described, the big sonic breakthrough for Vali 3 was upping the plate voltage to 100V from 60V in the Vali 2 series. That meant he could reduce negative feedback and deliver a more engaging wonder amp. I've had a V2+ for years. It sounds pretty good for the price... but meh and grainy compared to Vali 3. Which is a much, much improved from the previous editions. And rivals far more expensive tube amps. The improvement? Less negative feedback thanks to a higher plate voltage. That and moving the phone jack to the left to support bigger knobs. And knobhead users.

You could argue (and lose) that doubled double section driver tube designs could more easily employ a balanced input and output. While that is possible, the best ime, balanced input amps use very expensive line input transformers for that task. I had, briefly, the Monolith Liquid Platinum - balanced in/out amp, designed by Cavalli. Some good sonics, near legend at HF for a time. However, it also had unreasonably too much gain and burned a pair of NOS tubes for no point other than making more heat with too much gain. And checking off the (useless to me) balanced in/out marketing box.

Using my personal criteria, distilled over years of listening (and possibly drinking), I have yet to hear a tube amp that sounds better using doubled double section driver tubes when a single one would do. While paralleling output tubes in OTL design has good technical reasons (lower output impedance/more current), every amp I've heard that uses multiple paralleled tubes trades off incisiveness, detail and musicality for more boom-boom-bang. Not the tradeoff for me.

And finally, here's the worst part... purchasing well matched pairs of pricey NOS tubes is not only twice as expensive, it creates 10 times the nervosa. Is 10%-15% section matching good enough? 5% or 2%? It's tough enough finding decently matched sections in a single (dual) section tube. No need for 10X nervosa for me, thanks.

Now if this hypothetical Midgard sized amp used two single section tubes, like the 6C4 family, or EC86s or 6J5s, I'd be quite interested, because Twins For The Win!

Schiit would more likely release a streamer to stream over a freezing hellscape long before Jason would choose to design an amp with tube availability 1000 times worse than soviet-era 5670s.

I'm quite happy using dual-to-single socket adapters in the Vali 3. I'm also very happy with the incredible sonics Vali 3 delivers. Period. For the money? Wow! For those of us who have been through several pricey or cheap tube amps, the uncanny value of Vali 3 is unique. No desire for a doubled-up piece of schiit that will sound worse.

Sorry for the long rant... but doubling the need for irreplaceable NOS tubes for weak design reasons, while playing to some misguided 'symmetrical' marketing theory that somehow makes a tube amp twice as good, is annoying to my cheapskate sensibilities and gourmet tube appetites.

I think you just sold me a Vali 3.

 

[LobalWarming]

I think you just sold me a Vali 3.

I'm not sorry for costing you $159 for a sweet little amp.

I do profusely and repeatedly apologize for hundreds and hundreds of dollars you will spend, impulse buying, just-this-one-time-and-that's-it on many or even a hoard collection of thermionic gems.

Have fun!

 

[marekm]

Mine is on the way
Alas, in EU it is a 240 EUR (with black knob) sweet little amp

 

[rids57]

Mine is on the way
Alas, in EU it is a 240 EUR (with black knob) sweet little amp

that's expensive, I just checked Schiit.co.uk and the price has dropped £30 since I bought mine to £136 (VAT inc)

 

[marekm]

Purchasing / returning / warranty with UK (after Brexit) is a PITA and seldom less expensive than within EU.

In this particular case, it could indeed be a better deal, but once you factor in VAT and higher shipping costs, it probably will not.

 

[CandyClaws]

Cost me about 250 Eur for the Black version when i ordered directly from Schiit.com including shipping, taxes, brokerage fees etc..

 

[marekm]

The black version comes with a silver knob, so I paid extra 6 EUR for a black knob

Anyways, for us (EU) Schiit.eu, appears to be the better option, particularly when you factor in return and warranty terms (had to use both in the past).

 

[Digital Enigma]

Do you mean an all tube amp, with a single (dual section) driver stage and a single (dual section) output tube like the Crack or Eufonika H5? That would be an interestingly hot amp in that small footprint.

Or do you mean a hybrid amp with 2 (dual section) driver tubes like 5670 and SS output? In that case, absolutely not... because it will sound worse than the Vali 3 and cost more money. Bad tradeoff for me.

But why? Because... the only reason a designer doubles the input driver tubes with the same dual section glass is because the design is too noisy for a single driver. Strapping the sections in parallel in a triode tube reduces noise. The Vali 3 is already very low noise. Quieter than my Cavalli SS amp.

The other reason to operate twice as many tubes as needed is because the output section of the design is hard to drive. A SS output section is not a tough load for a driver tube. Not like driving a pair of 300Bs... even if there are designs that use a single 396A to do so very well.

The downsides to doubled driver tubes in a hybrid amp, is the waste of the added gain. That either is combatted with more negative feedback (ugh) or the user is stuck with an amp that has limited normal volume range. Negative feedback while a panacea to achieve useless inaudible distortion levels, is like sonic Novocain, especially bad with tube amps. It kills the joy of tube rolling as it makes all the tubes sound more meh - bad tubes sound meh, good tubes sound meh, great tubes sound slightly less meh.

As Jason described, the big sonic breakthrough for Vali 3 was upping the plate voltage to 100V from 60V in the Vali 2 series. That meant he could reduce negative feedback and deliver a more engaging wonder amp. I've had a V2+ for years. It sounds pretty good for the price... but meh and grainy compared to Vali 3. Which is a much, much improved from the previous editions. And rivals far more expensive tube amps. The improvement? Less negative feedback thanks to a higher plate voltage. That and moving the phone jack to the left to support bigger knobs. And knobhead users.

You could argue (and lose) that doubled double section driver tube designs could more easily employ a balanced input and output. While that is possible, the best ime, balanced input amps use very expensive line input transformers for that task. I had, briefly, the Monolith Liquid Platinum - balanced in/out amp, designed by Cavalli. Some good sonics, near legend at HF for a time. However, it also had unreasonably too much gain and burned a pair of NOS tubes for no point other than making more heat with too much gain. And checking off the (useless to me) balanced in/out marketing box.

Using my personal criteria, distilled over years of listening (and possibly drinking), I have yet to hear a tube amp that sounds better using doubled double section driver tubes when a single one would do. While paralleling output tubes in OTL design has good technical reasons (lower output impedance/more current), every amp I've heard that uses multiple paralleled tubes trades off incisiveness, detail and musicality for more boom-boom-bang. Not the tradeoff for me.

And finally, here's the worst part... purchasing well matched pairs of pricey NOS tubes is not only twice as expensive, it creates 10 times the nervosa. Is 10%-15% section matching good enough? 5% or 2%? It's tough enough finding decently matched sections in a single (dual) section tube. No need for 10X nervosa for me, thanks.

Now if this hypothetical Midgard sized amp used two single section tubes, like the 6C4 family, or EC86s or 6J5s, I'd be quite interested, because Twins For The Win!

Schiit would more likely release a streamer to stream over a freezing hellscape long before Jason would choose to design an amp with tube availability 1000 times worse than soviet-era 5670s.

I'm quite happy using dual-to-single socket adapters in the Vali 3. I'm also very happy with the incredible sonics Vali 3 delivers. Period. For the money? Wow! For those of us who have been through several pricey or cheap tube amps, the uncanny value of Vali 3 is unique. No desire for a doubled-up piece of schiit that will sound worse.

Sorry for the long rant... but doubling the need for irreplaceable NOS tubes for weak design reasons, while playing to some misguided 'symmetrical' marketing theory that somehow makes a tube amp twice as good, is annoying to my cheapskate sensibilities and gourmet tube appetites.

I was thinking more along the lines of hybrid design like the liquid platinum that uses 2x 12A*7

But that was before I learned a lot from this post and then realised it’s obviously not needed.

 

[HWB3]

He was the only guy I used to mention as sharing my birthday. Mr. Cool.

B.B. King for the win. I share mine with Bryant Gumbel. Lol.

 

[Deadwax65]

6Н3П-ЕВ

 

[Shane D]

Mine is on the way
Alas, in EU it is a 240 EUR (with black knob) sweet little amp

Landed in Canada, with tax, was $275.00 in Canuck bucks.

 

[RBRIII]

Comfort glow on a Friday.

 

[DrMorbius]

B.B. King for the win. I share mine with Bryant Gumbel. Lol.

Thomas Edison here, and I always loved him till I read up his horrible business practices. To me he is/was a business parasite.

 

[riffrafff]

Well, someone had to do it.